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monkey
monkey
October 15, 2014 8:37 am

A must for the future, if we start the FRES replacement programme now perhaps we can ditch the diesels in favour of di-lithium crystals for its in service date of 2099

Peter Elliott
October 15, 2014 8:42 am

Realistically the next opportunity to adopt this technology at any scale will come when look to replace our heavy armour some time after 2030. I’d look at a diesel electric chassis from Bae with the latest Leopard turret and gun.

DavidNiven
DavidNiven
October 15, 2014 10:19 am

‘Is this technology maturing just as SV Scout continues with conventional systems?’

It was probably mature enough a few years ago when we chose the FRES design, or at least mature enough to give it a go in trials. It’s been available for commercial vehicles for a few years and on heavy plant for at least a decade. Wasn’t the SEP canceled due to lack of international interest rather than the technology not working?

There is nothing innovative about FRES SV, no band tracks, decoupled running gear etc for the money we have spent on redesigning the ASCOD we should have just purchased the PUMA of the shelf.

oldreem
October 15, 2014 10:32 am

Re. FRES Scout, let’s not fall for jam tomorrow yet again. With massive volts & amps flowing about through big, beefy cables, there are big safety issues to be addressed in terms of damage resistance, particularly if the engine is situated well away from the transmission. The current issue of ‘Automotive Engineer’ focuses on hybrids in cars: the rate of technical advance is considerable, albeit driven by emissions regulations, and is assisted by Formula 1 and the new Formula E. Weight reduction, increased battery energy density and other aspects will all read across. Agreed, 2030 could be a realistic guess for a mature, battleworthy system into service.

EckyThump
EckyThump
October 15, 2014 10:40 am

As part of the early FRES Tech Demonstrators many km’s were done on AHEAD 8×8 full electric 8×8 with in-hub motors and Hagglunds (now BAE) had the full electric SEP; with that technology (by QinetiQ) transferred to FCS and now GCV Demonstrator. It has upscaled nicely from 27t to 70t. I now put electric drive firmly into the TRL7 category. A key benefit is the electrical power generation, with GCV delivering 1MW making directed energy and electric armour in sight. I do wonder why no one has not taken the leap of faith; I’m looking at you S.Korea or Singapore. What is missing – battery technology?

DavidNiven
DavidNiven
October 15, 2014 11:15 am

‘With massive volts & amps flowing about through big, beefy cables, there are big safety issues to be addressed’

You need to tell the commuters of London they have been riding around in a death trap since 2007 ;-)

monkey
monkey
October 15, 2014 12:01 pm

& DN
Don’t forget the 600 odd Boris Buses on the Overground , their power plant is identical BAES system as was the one on the FCS NLOS Cannon from a dozen years back. The heavy mining industry has been using a similar system for decades albeit without the battery interface (but that is coming too).I grant Oldreem’s point on battle damage and high power cabling but not beyond the wit of man to overcome.

Chris
Chris
October 15, 2014 12:13 pm

DN – big red hybrid buses? Hah! The Tube has had such electric drive since before WW1 and the commuter services on the Southern since the late 20s. The first electric powered buses (Tilling & Stevens?) were 1920s too.

There are issues with moderately high voltages (high hundreds) that hybrids seem to be settling on as standard, notably maintenance H&S, new battle damage risks and the like, but compared to the carriage of live ordnance these aren’t so bad. Nothing a bit of common sense in design, maintenance and operating procedures can’t sort out.

Observer
Observer
October 15, 2014 12:15 pm

Shhh!!!… They successfully hid all the bodies until now! :)

The Other Chris
October 15, 2014 12:24 pm

Wondered why the Chamber seemed a bit listless in PMQ earlier today…

El Sid
El Sid
October 15, 2014 3:42 pm

BAE were certainly pushing hybrid drive for their entry in the GCV (Bradley replacement) competition – a year ago they reported completing over 2000 miles of static testing on the Hotbuck testbed.

http://www.baesystems.com/article/BAES_160770/2000-miles-of-hybrid-gcv-mobility-testing-completed-ahead-of-schedule

oldreem
October 15, 2014 4:23 pm

Try googling ‘GCV Bradley’ – nothing radical until well into 2020s, I’d guess. If US throws their scale of D&T money at a hybrid vehicle that would speed things up. Point taken about hybrid buses etc, but nothing like the same duty cycle, energy storage or surge power requirements. (And might there be EMC/RFI problems with all the sensors, comms etc?) I don’t know – but am wary of being carried away on a wave of enthusiasm (seen it before – “nothing is as good or as bad as it first seems”.)

mr.fred
mr.fred
October 15, 2014 6:56 pm

The best way to prove it would be to build it. do we still have some challenger 2’s going spare?

as
as
October 15, 2014 10:47 pm

Wail we are at it we could fit the truck and MRAP fleet with an induction (electro magnetic) frictionless braking system.
http://www.telma.com/
You can stop the vehicle with the normal brakes of you can stop the with this system. It makes the brakes last far longer so makes the fleet cheaper to run.

as
as
October 15, 2014 10:55 pm

Ace Rimmer
October 16, 2014 7:31 am

Didn’t the Germans develop a diesel electric hybrid for the Tiger, Circa 1940?

Chris
Chris
October 16, 2014 8:51 am

Ace – Porsche’s first road vehicle was a hybrid. Somewhere around 1900. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohner-Porsche Most of his Panzer designs started with electric drive, although the more conservative engineers in the likes of Krupp managed to revert many back to straight mechanical drive. Maus and Elefant remained electric drive though… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_VIII_Maus, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elefant

S O
S O
October 16, 2014 1:41 pm

Dieselelectric tanks are like maglev trains, fusion power, flying cars … many attempts all the time, soon to be ready all the time, never a breakthrough to widespread use.

http://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.de/2014/02/a-blast-from-past-mimicked-by-present-i.html

mr.fred
mr.fred
October 16, 2014 5:41 pm

Much like the steam engine, the internal combustion engine, nuclear fission and vertical take-off aircraft (and aircraft in general) there will always be abortive attempts at getting it right. Maybe the time for series hybrids has come, maybe it needs to go around the circuit again.
In some ways tracked vehicles are superior to in-wheel drive electric motors as in tracked vehicles the drive motors are suspended and as such not subject to such high shocks.

oldreem
October 16, 2014 6:05 pm

@mr fred – Can’t see anyone putting the electric motors outside the armoured envelope on a wheeled AFV. You may be right about series (as per BAE) being the way to go, although other options might suit other roles. There’s an interesting article at http://www.ae.pwr.wroc.pl/filez/20110606092353_HEV.pdf

Jean Racine
Jean Racine
October 17, 2014 6:04 pm