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x
x
July 25, 2013 11:27 pm

“Is the UK being made to look weak and ineffectual?”

Yes. Been watching this since the story broke, I know last time Gib was discussed I tried to be reasonable, but for me this incident is a step too far. Madrid must know this is happening. You would think given the current economic situation Madrid would have more to worry about than annoying one of the EU’s largest contributors. Time to go after that GC boat even if it means going into Spanish waters. Time for the FP squadron to start arresting Spanish trawlers in the UK EEZ on suspicion of anything. Perhaps we should send a Spanish embassy official home too?

Remind me again where are the PM and El Clegg at the moment?

Albert Yome
Albert Yome
July 26, 2013 5:42 am

and we have the SD Victoria in port http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?mmsi=235068802&header=true. As some of you may know, this is the SBS ‘mothership’. All we need here is for Cameron and Hague to let the RN off the leash a bit and probably and OPV or FFG to enforce the message. A Merlin or Lynx for overwatch wouldn’t come amiss either.

Gibraltarians have fresh memories of 1982 and for ‘scrap metal merchants’ read ‘fishing boats’.

mike
mike
July 26, 2013 6:20 am

@Albert Yome

Well, the Argentine had operation Algeciras…

There comes a point where professionalism leaves… the Spanish Guarda-civil no longer has the professionalism of ‘courageous restraint’ that the RN and RGP have shown here (as much as the Rock’s civvies berate them, I bet they too are pretty tired of this), a clear indication of the make-up of the units involved.
Nonetheless, to the media, and public on both sides; it’ll appear as weak and ineffectual. I think they have poked the bunny too often now, time to bite; why not now order a boarding? See if this police-militia have the gall for RN steel. As X said, let us chase them about like a fool in crowded ocean space…

Kudos to the barge and tug boat…putting up with churlish attempts at making dangerous waters and carrying on with their job.

Problem is, much like the Cod Wars… the RN isn’t trained for this… the RN shouldn’t be putting up with this sh!t either.

Simon257
Simon257
July 26, 2013 7:36 am

Their are times and this Is one of them, that a modern version of this –

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Gun_Boat
Or this
http://www.warshipsww2.eu/lode.php?language=E&period=&idtrida=860

Would be much better than a P2000!

Rocket Banana
July 26, 2013 7:40 am

Just proves how pointless those little Scimitar class are.

Not enough presence!

What are Tyne, Mersey and Severn doing at the mo?

Can they get a Wildcat on the back?

Not a Boffin
Not a Boffin
July 26, 2013 9:20 am

Tyne, Mersey and Severn are busy enough in UK and don’t have a flightdeck. Even if they did, why on earth would you put a cab on the ship when the area of contested water is within visual range of a nice airfield?

ChrisM
ChrisM
July 26, 2013 10:22 am

I would say the government are handling this pretty well.
Between the various agencies there were 7 British boats out there against 3 Spanish ones, so we demonstrated we take it seriously and couldn’t be given the run around – eventually the Guardia Civile told the fishermen to go home as it was getting too dangerous.
Laying the artificial reef that just so happens to mark the border and stop the Spanish fishing is a genius idea.
By not over-reacting we are keeping this out of the mainstream media. Any escalation, even to just pointing guns at each other, will be to the Spaniards advantage. Their politicians will look well’ard at home, and we will inevitably get painted as the arrogant, evil imperialist in the world press.
We can’t ‘win’ this battle, we can only avoid taking the bait and giving the Spanish the world media event they want. We don’t look weak, because no one is looking.

PS – our boats look more professional than theirs – that one speeding around looks like they just put some stickers on a chav’s speedboat

x
x
July 26, 2013 10:32 am

The Rivers are just too big……….

http://www.gib-action.com/images/terrwaters.gif

I think the RN of 70s “fighting” the Cod Wars in personnel terms were probably more up to that job than today’s RN are up for facing down the CG. Sorry APATS and Somewhat. The problem in the 70s was more to do with not having the right ships. The frigates were driven with verve and no quarter was given. If Iceland hadn’t played the NATO card things would have turned out very differently. Our government hasn’t the backbone, playing the clever game, and holding the moral high ground aren’t winning this for us. Not sure whether the Spanish government is just immature or its Latin spirit or pure nationalism or what; saying that I don’t think any other European nation would put up with this behaviour. ** I think a crisis has to be forced now. Hopefully without shots being exchanged. And if that means chasing that CG boat into Spanish waters then so be it; methinks we would need three boats. I would halt work on the reef. Get some RE down there and a scratch RN crew for the barge. If that guy driving the diesel counterbalance had gone over the side he would have been killed without a shadow of doubt. And HMG would have been as much to blame as the Spanish.

The P2000 with the right engines fitted are capable of quite astonishing speeds.

A couple of tractor tugs with monitors would probably be enough to keep the CG boat away from the barge.

I would start randomly arresting Spanish trawlers in UK waters. I would sell the catch too, bugger EU regulations, and give the money to the Catalan nationalist parties.

A proper ship and helicopter would be appropriate for one task, a nice drive by of Ceuta.

Of course Dave the Spineless and El Clegg are more worried about upsetting Brussels than Gibraltar.

** I know how fond nations are of sending ships to watch allies when similar behaviour on land would be unconscionable.

x
x
July 26, 2013 10:39 am

@ Chris M re nobody is watching

Apart from 30,000 odd Gibraltarians, the EU, the Spanish………

As for marking the border what we need is large buoys, clearly distinguishable from those used for navigation and moorings, that clearly mark the edge of the territorial water. Saying that if you look at maps and video footage it is clear that the CG know what they are doing.

Madrid clearly no what is going on. They are in debt up to their castanets. They need to grow up.

Chris
Chris
July 26, 2013 10:53 am

x – love the idea of being obstructive to Spanish trawlers in UK waters (never thought they had the rights to bring factory ships here in the first place) up to the point of seizing the catch and sending them home empty-handed. You wouldn’t be able to move in Brussels for Spanish contingents wailing and sobbing about it to any Eurocrat that would listen. But it does open up a possibility – if Spanish fishing boats are allowed in UK waters, surely British fishing boats are equally authorised to sit off Spanish shores? Maybe there’s good fishing just off Gib – we should find some big grey boats and anchor them a few hundred yards offshore with a couple of hairy matelots fishing off the quaterdeck. Fair’s fair, after all.

Rocket Banana
July 26, 2013 11:00 am

…why on earth would you put a cab on the ship…

Presence.

Anyway, if they don’t have a flight deck it isn’t going to work particularly well ;-)

Rocket Banana
July 26, 2013 11:01 am

It’s probably retaliation for that recent Top Gear episode anyway!

Red Trousers
Red Trousers
July 26, 2013 11:28 am

Can we not mount a muck spreader onto one of our little floaty boats, with 20,000 litres of our finest agricultural muck from the heart of England? Tip up next to both the fishing boat and the Guardia Civil launch, and give them a good spreading?

Followed up by a stiffly delivered note from the Ambassador in Madrid to tell the Dagoes that the next lot is going to have high explosive in it.

Then unilaterally and overnight deploy a line of buoys demarcating our territorial waters. Don’t ask, just fucking do it. Having the border closed used to hurt the Spanish more than it does Gibraltar, in economic terms, and if necessary we could make up the difference to the Gibbo economywith DFID funds.

(Better not show this to Mrs RT, who has good friends in La Linea and we’ve often holidayed at a villa they own 5 miles up the coast. Flying into Gib itself on Monarch Airways)

ChrisM
ChrisM
July 26, 2013 11:30 am

@ X
“Apart from 30,000 odd Gibraltarians, the EU, the Spanish”

So no one really. The Spanish are not achieving anything whilst we keep being polite about it, just using a lot of fuel they cant afford. They are not winning, we are not losing. All we need to do is to maintain our rights by going out and telling them to go away. It is like having kids in your orchard. Go out and tell them to piss off, but get the shotgun out and you look like the bad guy.
We wont win a PR war, because we are the evil imperialistics (facts, and the Spanish colonies on the North African coast get ignored) so the best we can do is keep it very low key.

John Hartley
John Hartley
July 26, 2013 11:34 am

I realise I am talking to myself, but I still think 4 boxes of Brimstone Sea Spear mounted on the Rock, would show intent.

x
x
July 26, 2013 11:41 am

@ Chris M

Yes I know what you are saying. And normally I preach a similar line. But this incident is a step too far. It was dangerous. It was stupid. In 82 we sent a small armada 8000 miles because 3000 or so Brits were in peril. Ignoring 30,000 Brits close to home just isn’t on any longer.

ChrisM
ChrisM
July 26, 2013 11:55 am

@ X
Why is this incident a step too far? As I understand it was right on the border, so it isn’t as if the Guardia Civile are poncing about in the Inner Harbour. No one got boarded, and the Spanish bottled it and told their own fishermen to go home in the end, without any interruption to the reef laying. We effectively won.

Gibraltar is not in any peril at all, the Spanish are just titting about in small boats so they can pretend they are doing something. Any kind of serious action from us and it is us that are raising the stakes.

Until they board a boat that is clearly in British waters, or stop the airport from operating, they are doing nothing. We have a lot of boats there and it all looks under control.

Red Trousers
Red Trousers
July 26, 2013 11:57 am

El Sid,

not funny, I’m afraid.

Simon257
Simon257
July 26, 2013 12:20 pm

@ RT

I can lay my hands on a Tractor and a Muck spreader, full of the finest Welsh Manure! Only thing is, my Father-in-Law will want it back on Monday!

Repulse
July 26, 2013 12:45 pm

Some new trials for the Wildcat in a warm environment are needed I think…

x
x
July 26, 2013 1:00 pm

@ Chris M

Titting about in boats can get others killed. I didn’t like what I saw.

Really don’t want to go down another rabbit hole in this thread already have enough going on in the FRES thread with Observer and his motorbikes.

But I do have to ask do you know much Gibraltarian Spanish relations? And do you hold any power boat qualifications? Or have any maritime experience? Have you ever driven a diesel counterbalance? You may well do and I may indeed be seeing this wrongly. But this on the firing of those batton rounds the other day is just too much silliness. You must regard trespassing on British sovereignty as something or you would not comment here. Why not argue for the RGP, RN, and GDP just to stay alongside the wall?

Rocket Banana
July 26, 2013 1:12 pm

A Chinook or Merlin hovering 2 meters above their boats is sure to make them pack up and go home, if not sink them.

ChrisM
ChrisM
July 26, 2013 2:23 pm

@X
Point taken but we have nothing to gain by escalating this into something the world takes notice of.
“titting about in boats’ may be risky (though they are all trained professionals) but is a lot less risky than getting armed military pointing guns at each other.
The video shows that we have enough people with enough boats to control this – they faced off the Spanish without injuries or diplomatic incidents.
That Channel Five programme showed that the copper chap knew what to do – show up, exercise sovereignty, tell them to go away, without causing a scene.
The Spanish have nothing to complain about without highlighting their past military failures. We don’t want to give them a modern grievance that they can take to the world – a world that will not be on our side.

Chris.B
Chris.B
July 26, 2013 3:46 pm

Maybe I’m missing something in the video but other than pottering around and making a general nuisance of themselves the Spanish don’t seem to be doing anything serious, at least in the sense of anything that is particularly dangerous. While annoying, this isn’t exactly the kind of thing that would warrant a sudden redeployment of all the Rivers. I suspect the Spanish are revelling in just how much of a mountain is being made out of what appears to be a mole hill.

WiseApe
July 26, 2013 5:52 pm

The online Panorama has a couple of informative articles on this incident:

http://www.panorama.gi/

Seems those concrete blocks are snagging the Spanish fishermens’ nets. Shame that.

WiseApe
July 26, 2013 5:58 pm

BTW, there’s been quite alot of Typhoon activity around Warton today. Harpoon integration? :P

Ace Rimmer
July 26, 2013 6:15 pm

Gunboats do work…however it doesn’t seem to be the British way of doing things, the Irish and French navies apparently see these things somewhat differently.

Timeline 1984:

http://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/21/world/irish-said-to-sink-spanish-trawler.html

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1301&dat=19841022&id=2boyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=WegDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4897,3913716

I thought the bit that said, “…the fishermen were involved in similar incidents with French gunboats earlier this year.” somewhat poignant.

WiseApe
July 26, 2013 6:48 pm

These will no doubt be towed past Gib on their way to the breakers yard in Turkey.

http://www.defencemanagement.com/news_story.asp?id=23553

x
x
July 26, 2013 7:07 pm

@ Chris M re trained professionals

So was that Spanish train driver. Admittedly it doesn’t take much to get Gibraltarians angry about space. But something has to be done. I don’t think CG would ever go out to deliberately shoot at somebody but we are heading for an accident. For the most part UK assets are just there, there isn’t an option for direct action as such, and the Spanish know this all too well. FWIW HMS Scimitar displaces 105tons. I have seen limbs broken and other injuries when boats only 2% of that size come together at speeds a lot less than we saw in the video. Some here may think it is all jolly japes and sky larking but again I don’t see it that way. Passivity only goes so far.

ChrisM
ChrisM
July 27, 2013 10:25 am

@X
We need to do what the enemy least wants us to do.
The Spanish either want to be left alone so they can creep closer and closer, or they want a reaction that they can take crying to the world press and courts.
So we have plenty of boats out there to go out, ask them to leave, and demonstrate sovereignty (and they have always left). And we avoid escalation.
The reefs are a genius idea as they take away the reason for the Spanish fishermen to be there. If they aren’t there the GC have no reason to protect them, and most of the opportunities for confrontation are gone.
As long as they keep leaving when asked we are holding our ground and the Spanish are losing and looking impotent, They are achieving nothing.
What would a UK show of force achieve? We would look bad, and it would damage Gibraltar – if I were the Spanish I would be looking for an escalation, stick helicopters and MPA up, then use that as an excuse to close the airspace (‘for safety’) and thereby blockade Gibraltar and its tourist trade.

x
x
July 27, 2013 2:03 pm

@ Chris M

I know all the issues. It could be soundly argued argued that Gibraltar itself is a much bigger irritant to Spain than Spanish lobster boat is to Gibraltar.

Consider this,

http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=28235

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perejil_Island

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbot_War

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17635879

http://www.dw.de/image/0,,16501803_303,00.jpg

Now I am all for the moral high ground, turning the other cheek, the stiff upper lip, and so on. All very well and good, and when it comes to Gib matters I normally take that position because the Spanish will do what they will do. But passivity only takes you so far. And putting off an argument is really no solution. And the latter is what F&CO is doing.

Economically the immediate Spanish hinterland may not be dependent on Gibraltar but Gibraltar is one of the few economic positives, That is to say Spain needs Gibraltar more than Gibraltar needs Spain. I will qualify that by saying Spain needs Gibraltar as it is more than Spain needs 2 square miles of extra geography. Don’t forget the wishes of the Gibraltarians themselves. I also believe that good fences make good neighbours.

If the issue was just about Spanish fishing boats it would be OK. But this about craft operated by a paramilitary organisation of the Spanish government. How do you think the French would react if a British vessel turned up mile of Cherbourg and started playing silly buggers? Or any other European nation would react in a similar situation? That incident with the barge was a step too far, an incident in a catalogue of incidents, and something needs to be done. Occasionally kind has to be met with kind. It demonstrates resolve. When you study IR one of the things that gets pressed into you its that states interact on a wide spectrum. Occasionally international relations are like the school playground meets realpolitik and the gloves have to come off. Other times grand diplomacy and reason actioned with accompanying paperwork. Sometimes actions on a level effect others; sometimes there is a discrete barrier.

You have to ask yourself what are we defending, why are we defending it, and is it being defended? That actions have consequences runs both ways. Do you think if the RGP chased off the CG that a Spanish brigade would be across the border before the end of the week? No of course not. If the RGP chased off the CG and deployed another boat there to reinforce what they have that would be an escalation. An escalation against a state who wields more power in the EU than they do at time German voters are getting tired of being the bagman. States act forcefully with other states all the time without it resulting in war or more than a blip on international scene.

You say nobody is watching what happens in Gibraltar. In a way it is true. I mean if the majority here are more interested in the X-Factor than the Euro, who is going to be interest if a few square of sea? Well 30,000 Gibraltarians are watching, 4000 plus Spanish from a town with 12000 unemployed who work in Gibraltar are watching. The EU is a supranational organisation. This is political theory of the highest order; a complex milieu of high functioning states coming together in shared sovereignty that behoves those involved to act maturely. It doesn’t work. Spain is dependent on the EU. Spain benefits from the EU. Spain acts like it is still May 14, 1648.

One final thing. Don’t forget that as wonderful as Think Army & RAF, sorry Think Defence is as a website what we bang out here isn’t going to affect anything. Nor should you interpret any of the silly mildly jingoistic scribblings of myself or anybody else as our true position on this situation. More they are just manifestation of our frustrations with this situation and others one linked with it, and a vehicle for humour to lighten not only their day but hopefully the days of others’. That is something several here with egos bigger than intellect and imaginations as dull as rainy Norwegian winter afternoon fail to realise. If this was an MA dissertation what I would write would be lot more tempered and balanced. It is though an MA dissertation. It is a trifle. I diversion between cleaning out aviary one and wondering what to prepare for the day’s main meal.

ChrisM
ChrisM
July 28, 2013 10:07 am

@X
From the reports I have seen the GC boats don’t need “chasing off”. The Gib boats go out and ask them to leave, and they do leave. I like your first link – good idea to make the EU tell the Spaniards what the reality is.
It must get pretty tedious but there is not much you can legally do.
What would your escalation be? If I was asked to pick an escalation I would keep it well away from Gib and its congested waters (a shooting incident in a small bay with loads of tankers about could look very reckless and is likely to be on video). I would start harassing the big Spanish boats in our waters (keep it technically legal so any EU complaints take much longer to raise). Repeated inspections etc would soon have an income impact on the fishermen and they would then lean on the government, who would have to decide whether some minor willy-waving off Gib is worth it.

PS This website maybe insignificant but it is a rare place to talk out such issues with people who know more than they read in the Sun/Daily Mail!! Oh, and I did a degree in International Studies….a long long time ago…

x
x
July 28, 2013 10:46 am

I can’t remember advocating shooting anybody anywhere.

As for “chasing off” I am advocating or rather hoping that ROE are a bit more robust than RGP policeman shouting across to the CG and asking them how well are their wives and children. But I fear they are not.

The EU don’t see Gibraltar’s water as Gibraltar’s they see them as European. To the likes of me the words or terms EU and European aren’t interchangeable. The UK has the capacity to cause problems for Spain in the EU, but it doesn’t have the capacity to truly harm Spain. International law is rather like fairies, it only exists if you and everybody else truly believe in it. That is you act in compliance with the treaty and convention to which you are a signatory; legality then in that context is a fairly elastic term.

Though I think my idea of the FPS harassing Spanish trawlers is utterly amazing and probably the best thing ever written here, yes truly I do think that, occasionally you have to act at the point of crisis.

x
x
July 28, 2013 10:50 am

My link from yesterday was broken so………

http://www.dw.de/image/0,,16501803_303,00.jpg

HurstLlama
HurstLlama
July 28, 2013 1:59 pm

“My link from yesterday was broken”

And you link for today is also broken. Third time lucky, Mr. X?

The idea of harassing Spanish Trawlers is indeed an excellent one and would be most popular with our own fishing folk. I would question the use of the term “Harass” though, “actually enforcing the law for a change” might be a better description. For Spaniards the rules on fish sizes, catch limits, etc. are for others, not themselves and this has been a long running scandal for decades.

WiseApe
July 28, 2013 2:23 pm

The second link works fine and I conclude that we should be sending arms not to the Syrians but to the Moroccans. Actually don’t bother, our French allies have already got that covered:

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31166&Itemid=106

as
as
July 28, 2013 5:50 pm

ok I know it the daily mail but fighter jets is an escalation.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2380286/Spain-escalates-Gibraltar-stand-stopping-10-000-vehicles-leaving-Rock-sparking-hour-border-delays-86F-heat.html

Officers from the Royal Gibraltar Police were forced to impose diversions and create beachside holding areas as Spanish authorities ‘choked’ the border, causing massive tailbacks. It was the second day that border guards had blocked links to the mainland, in a move that seemed calculated to bring Gibraltar to a standstill. The move follows a string of recent incidents which have included Spanish police opening fire on a jetskier in British waters, incursions by Spanish police boats, and Spanish air force jets roaring across the territory.

x
x
July 28, 2013 6:01 pm

http://www.chronicle.gi/

Keep Calm! Don’t Panic Mr Mainwaring!

x
x
July 28, 2013 6:04 pm

@ Hurts Llama

If you copy and paste the link it works. Thanks confirming it isn’t my PC.

Simon257
Simon257
July 28, 2013 7:50 pm

BBC are reporting telephone calls between London and Madrid!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23482549

Tom1879
Tom1879
July 29, 2013 10:13 am

The Royal Navy Gibraltar Squadron should expand and get two of these. All they would need to do is double the size of the current squadron, so that one could always be manned and on station. Or alternatively the Gibraltar Defence Police could take these on and get rid of their launches.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knud_Rasmussen_class_ocean_patrol_crafts

Ace Rimmer
July 29, 2013 2:19 pm

Soooo, its not just us then?

http://www.alarabiya.net/views/2010/08/09/116126.html

Thought this bit spoke volumes…

“When the Moroccan government’s demands that Madrid enter negotiations over the future of the two cities become sharper, the Spanish authorities react tensely, and in hostile fashion, against Moroccan visitors.”

Repulse
August 4, 2013 6:53 pm

50 Euros border crossing fee and closing airspace to flights into Gibraltar – ENOUGH is ENOUGH.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23567976

This government needs to grow some balls now and do something!

50 Euros for every tourist going to and from Spain should do it for a start – from public stats looks to be 2 millions visitors from Spain to the UK and 6 million the other way (over 25% of all tourists)… should buy a few patrol boats for Gibraltar or just f*up their country.

x
x
August 4, 2013 7:15 pm

They don’t like it up ’em!

http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=30335

This is getting interesting in a “shoot an archduke in some tiny corner of Europe” sort of way. If the Spanish take it too far and Call me Dave does nothing……………

The biggest mistake he could make is to go to Brussels to get them to sort it out.

wf
wf
August 4, 2013 8:08 pm

: really very simple. Charging for crossing an EU border is illegal. Ditto all the other stuff. We are a net contributor to the EU budget, Spain is a net recipient. Withold EU contributions equivalent to Spain’s share of EU budget. Ignore the screams :-)

x
x
August 4, 2013 8:13 pm
mike
mike
August 4, 2013 8:31 pm

The problem with this kinda of people (Spanish nationalists and gov… and touches on what X says about the ‘macho’ attitude of this region, like the Argentine (who btw are getting 20 Mirage F1M’s from Spain, plus spares, weapons and training…)) is that whatever we will do, will be seen as either a weakness or provocation. The UK is stubbornly against the tit for tat show we could pull re Morocco.

My main concern is the Gib people… to them, this is more personal (tourism and fuel ships are vital to their economy, both which can be affected easily by the Spanish GC) and I can imagine they’d be looking at the UK and hoping for a clear – and public – show of support, the slow and perceived weak responses from our gov – which are perfectly normal for this – to them will be seen as the mother nation just not caring about a people who have been flying our flag against a noisey neighbor. Sounds familiar?

Its crazy, Spain, EU member and NATO ally, is pulling this sh!t with an ally who pours money into that EU pot which has helped Spain so much. Makes me wonder what their ‘deal’ is… why now? But their *real* military has not been doing any such bravado moves… when we start to see those units move, then I’ll check out that link, X, ;)

Seems we are stuck between a Rock and a hard place…

John Hartley
John Hartley
August 4, 2013 8:51 pm

Surely we should respond by holding up Spanish trucks at UK customs for 7 hours.

x
x
August 4, 2013 9:09 pm

@ Mike

It just isn’t the EU direct funding. It is our fishing. It is the 700,000 odd Brits who are active in the Spanish economy unlike most of their young. It is the tourism.

It is the crazy contrariness Kafkaesque nature of the dispute that angers me.

I just get the feeling this isn’t going just to blow over. This situation has been building for months.

mike
mike
August 4, 2013 9:45 pm

@ X

Indeed; its just so blatantly silly, considering that barely over the straits they are in a similar position as the UK’s.
I forgot to mention the fishing and ex-pats, who as you pointed out previously.

It would be easy to fall into that pit of thinking all Spaniards are for this, when really its only nationalists and (a % of) the government, and – arguably – local population (who even then depend on Gib).

Its been boiling for a long time, yes, but someone has called for this to occur… whether it was an over zealous GC officer/CO giving the Spanish Gov an excuse to latch onto, or something that goes deeper/higher. What are they trying to get out of this? Some sort of UK concession? When we could so easily damage them economically?

I really doubt those waters are particularly fish friendly, the entire Medd is rather poor environmentally. This thing just stinks – either a local thing blown out of proportion by media and politicians… or something else.

Ace Rimmer
August 4, 2013 10:47 pm

It might be worthwhile talking to the Moroccans, we’ve sold them enough 105’s in the past. Support them in a united pact against the Spanish, it would be interesting to see how the Spanish react if Morocco charged them 50 Euro’s to leave Ceuta to enter Moroccan territory.

Childish I know, but international politics is merely the politics of the playground in a bigger playground.

Gloomy Northern Boy
Gloomy Northern Boy
August 4, 2013 10:56 pm

As a student of History, I cannot help but reflect on previous instances of European states facing economic disintegration throwing up more and more extreme and irrational acts of nationalism…often with some support in a chaotic and dysfunctional government…and none of them end well…

My list starts with Gabrielle D’Annunnzio in 1919, has some very significant entries in the 1920’s and 30’s, and items were still being added in the Balkans in the 1990’s…

Both watchful and Gloomy.

x
x
August 6, 2013 4:20 pm

The Spanish and artificial reefs………….

http://www.panorama.gi/localnews/headlines.php?action=view_article&article=10617&offset=0

Either this will blow out within the next few days or the Spanish will do something really stupid. And by Spanish I mean the government not the people. :)

x
x
August 6, 2013 5:10 pm
WiseApe
August 8, 2013 5:55 pm

I trust this lot will be avoiding those artificial reefs:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/warship-given-gibraltar-deployment-171857448.html#DX9tS8f

x
x
August 8, 2013 6:46 pm

I have been reading that Guardia Civil are often caught up in smuggling rings. Also apparently there is only one Spanish fisherman who goes to fish in Gibraltarian waters. He says he is being used by his government. But he also says the RGP have driven others away in a robust manner. I am sorry I can’t see that being true. Policing by consent vs policing by armed paramilitary force who live in barracks away from the community. Good to see Lusty and friends (including the friendly frigate HMS Westminster) visiting the Rock. I hope all have a good run ashore.

x
x
August 9, 2013 8:17 am
x
x
August 24, 2013 3:35 pm

Spanish frogmen invade Gibraltar………

http://news.sky.com/story/1132696/gibraltar-row-spanish-divers-inspect-reef

the answer is to float test some of these above where they are diving………….

http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/Eurometaal_H6_Hand_Grenade.jpg

This is getting silly.

They have had 300 odd years to go to find somewhere else to fish.

What will Call Me Dave do? Foxtrot Alpha

x
x
August 29, 2013 6:50 pm

Meanwhile at the interesting end of the Mediterranean the CG are being pelted with rocks and rude words, allegedly.

http://www.panorama.gi/

How long before the CG resort to baton rounds in reply? Things are heating up.

Apparently Sean Bean is on standby to lead a ragtag band of choooosen men through the Iberian Peninsula…….obviously a reference to the Adaptable Farce.

x
x
August 31, 2013 5:06 pm

On Wednesday this week BBC 4 has a programme about Gibraltar.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b039ksm9

More on Spanish plans to scupper Gib’s bunkering industry.

http://en.mercopress.com/2013/08/30/spain-plans-to-damage-gibraltar-economy-by-fining-companies-in-the-bunkering-business

mike
mike
August 31, 2013 5:51 pm

@X

Thankyou for the continuous updates (I look forward to the beeb4 doc), rather attached to that lump of rock owing to my years with the Alberts.

The Bunker threat will hurt Gib the most, amazed how this hasn’t sparked more debate, unless there are some phone calls going back and forward between Madrid and London…

Chris.B
Chris.B
September 1, 2013 12:46 am

A bit of positive news for Gibraltar, they’ve just been voted in to the UEFA system for the Euro 2016 championships. The Spanish rep walked out for some reason…