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Swimming Trunks
Swimming Trunks
August 29, 2012 11:03 pm

Brilliant! Tracks rule… Eventually.

Observer
Observer
August 29, 2012 11:38 pm

Where is a mine when you need one? :)

Pete Arundel
Pete Arundel
August 31, 2012 12:26 am

I think that tracked tractor may be quite old – in design if not physically!

http://www.o5m6.de/stz-3.html

S O
S O
August 31, 2012 12:04 pm

It’s clearly working, though.

By the size of its wheels it ought to be among the rather fine soft soil wheeled vehicles and still fails on the wet soft soil with only a thin layer of grass.
This is an approximation of a typical Central or Eastern European agricultural area in fall.

That’s why I linked to the post about the mean maximum pressure papers that explain soft soil performance of vehicles.

Dangrous Dave
Dangrous Dave
August 31, 2012 12:18 pm

Got to admit, I was waiting for the point in the video when they called in a Mi-26 to come and lift the lot of them out and onto the nearest highway! ;-)

Monty
September 5, 2012 8:34 am

The point is well made in this video: tracked vehicles ultimately offer better off-road performance than wheeled vehicles, particularly 4-wheeled vehicles.

So are you going to exchange your VW Golf for a Viking or something similar? I think not. We now have an extensive road network in Europe. It allows us to get from A to B in a million different ways. It would be silly not to take advantage of it in time of war. That’s what 8×8 vehicles do. They provide strategic mobility that allows you to shift whole brigade size units quickly and easily from say France Bosnia.

Yes, of course roads will get blown up or be impassable at times. That’s why any 8×8 will need an off-road capability. The cross-country performance of modern 8x8s has improved in leaps and bounds over the last decade. They still don’t have quite the same level of agility as tanks and MICVs, but they can certainly follow on behind them, just as Russian BTR-70s and 80s were able to do years ago.

So any future requirement should not be a case of wheels versus tracks, but wheels and tracks. They complement each other. Seeing this video makes me lament the impending loss of the Scorpion / Scimitar. I’d love to see the Army get an extremely agile replacement with good IED protection and banded tracks: a sort of modern Bren gun carrier.

Observer
Observer
September 5, 2012 9:32 am

I’m very curious about one thing. If they had driven the tracked tractor to the point where the SUV got bogged down, what would have happened? As it is, all it showed was that the tracked vehicle confined to a surface which the SUV had already driven over.

And I’ve seen tanks throw tracks on a fairly common basis. I’ve yet to see a wheeled APC throw a wheel, and don’t expect to, not without explosive “encouragement”.

Monty
September 7, 2012 11:53 am

@TD

Is the ATMP a modern day Bren gun carrier?

Good question. I It can certainly go anywhere a tracked vehicle can and is generally a capable vehicle, but it probably needs to be larger with maybe eight wheels instead of six. That way it could carry two crew plus four passengers in reasonable comfort. It also needs to be enclosed with some degree of IED protection. Can you see where I am going with this…

Mike W
September 7, 2012 3:17 pm

Swimming Trunks

Well, it certainly has eight wheels and looks like an ATMP! Perhaps something like that is what we should be aiming for.

TD and Monty

The problem would be to get the ATMP (if you mean the Supacat) back into production again. Apparently Supacat stopped production some time ago and now the last ones have been withdrawn from British Army service (I think). Damned stupid decision.

Certainly agree with Monty that with greatly improved tyre technology “the cross-country performance of modern 8x8s has improved in leaps and bounds over the last decade.” Also agree that it “should not be a case of wheels versus tracks, but wheels and tracks. They complement each other.”

Swimming Trunks
Swimming Trunks
September 7, 2012 4:24 pm

An idea for a modern Universal carrier:

http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/bren.html

Observer
Observer
September 7, 2012 5:00 pm

@ST

In that case, isn’t the role of transport and troop carrier already taken over by ATTCs like the Viking? I’m sure with a little mod, a Viking could carry a GMPG on the front and even a HMG at the rear. Motar variants are already in existence and cargo trailers are common too.

Mike W
September 7, 2012 5:45 pm

Swimming Trunks

Have had a read of the angelfire article. Interesting stuff!

Swimming Trunks
Swimming Trunks
September 7, 2012 5:57 pm

@ Observer – Thought the same thing myself; possibly smaller to fit inside large helicopters? And the ability to operate the two units seperately, like the Bronco prototype?