A guest post from Jed
TD’s recent Atlantic Conveyor and Harrier FOB pieces have allowed a few of our regular commenter’s to indulge in some “what if” scenario development. As a fan of the alternative history genre of fiction, and a fan of stunning work of some the illustrators on the Ship bucket site, I thought I might indulge in a little light-hearted alternative naval history
The serious part – Naval AAA in the Falklands
It has been correctly noted that the RN was absolutely not equipped for a close in fight against fighter ground attack aircraft in an environment such as San Carlos water. Sea Dart and Sea Wolf had replaced Sea Slug and Sea Cat missile systems respectively, but even during the 50 ship fleet days of the Cold War, money was tight, and the modern anti-missile systems were not that widely spread, but we must not forget this was a time of transition. At one extreme was the Type 12 frigate of 1950s design and at the other was the first of the T22’s – the “all missile” ASW frigate, without even a medium calibre gun.
So the RN had decided to go down the anti-missile, missile route for protection against Soviet submarine launched high-subsonic sea skimming missiles, and the big air launched high altitude, supersonic steep diving missiles liked the AS4. Thus, the smaller calibre auto-cannon in the RN was a “policing” weapon; for use only in “Cod war” type scenarios, hence in 1982 RN’s ships were touting the single barrel Mk7A 20mm Oerlikon that had been used on every type of ship since the start of WWII (but generally in much greater numbers !). Another WWII veteran fitted to some Falklands task force ships was the optically aimed, manually served 40mm Bofors.
Existing ‘advanced’ gun systems in 1982
- Rarden 30mm cannon sea trials in 1980 ? (onboard HMS Yarmouth?) (90 rpm – too slow)
- Phalanx – full rate production started in 1978, first US ship fully fitted in 1980
- M167 Vulcan Air Defence System from the 1970’s (range only radar and lead computing optical site)
- Oerlikon KAA 20mm (GAM-B01) belt fed lightweight single man mount (454Kg)
- Breda 40mm mounts
- Bofors L40/60 MK IX single – wght 1981Kg ?
- BMARC guns – twin and single 30mm mounts
So if the Soviet missile threat had not been top of our minds, perhaps we might have had more guns that could have been of use in San Carlos water, but given that the RN was oriented to fighting WWIII in the North Atlantic, then even if we had our at least our Sea Cart armed ships fitted with Phalanx or the Italian 40mm which had also been thoroughly tested in anti-missile mode in the late 70s – it probably would not have made any difference.
However, outside of San Carlos water, it may well have made a difference to HMS Sheffield, HMS Coventry and HMS Glamorgan.
Rapid re-fit on the way South?
Ships leaving UK after the initial task force sailing – available for AAA mods
- Antelope
- Alacrity
- Yarmouth
Ships which could possibly have been modded at Ascension Island if they stopped long enough and engineering logistics could be sorted out:
Antelope (escort to the LSL group)
Argonaut and Ardent (with the Major Amphibs group)
Bristol Group arrived AOR 26th May (after the San Carlos landings and the sinking of the T21’s).
- Bristol (T82)
- Cardiff (T42)
- Andromeda (Sea Wolf-Exocet Leander)
- Minerva (Exocet Leander)
- Penelope (Exocet Leander)
- Avenger (T21)
Total possible available for AAA upgrade: 10 frigates, of which 6 in place before the San Carlos landings
5 x T21, 4 x Leander Class, 1 x T12, 1 x T42, 1 x T82
But what could have been made available and added to these ships ? Well in the spirit of TD’s recent question about the U.S. fence sitting on the FI issue, in 1982 they did expedite our deliveries of the latest Sidewinder variant for our Sea Harriers and provided Shrike anti-radar missiles for some of the Vulcan “Black buck” PR exercises (sorry, ultra-long range bombing missions !).
My answer is that we could have asked the U.S. to lend us a regiment of M167 Vulcan air-defence guns:
12 of these towed 20mm Gatling guns, a single one for each of the ships mentioned above – wheels removed, spot welded to the deck in place of a Sea Cat launcher!
Although only optically aimed, the radar is for proving range info only, the fast firing gun (the same one as used on the Phalanx mount) throwing high volumes of tracer into the face of Skyhawk pilots may well have had the desired effect
Of course, even better would have been a BIG batch of Stinger MANPADS – yes we had some, in the hands of the SAS, but a large number as additional air defence on the frigates might also have been a game changer:
Given the performance of the various ship types in the Falklands campaign, what if we decided to upgrade the 4 batch II Country class destroyers, replace the T21 with the remaining T42’s modified as ‘Frigates’ and in turn replaced them with a big T83 air defence destroyer based on the hull of the Bristol ?
Well, here is my late 1980s alternative naval history
1. Post-Falklands HMS Bristol with Ikara replaced with Sea Wolf (and port and starboard (910 trackers).
2. County Class mid-life Re-fit with Sea Wolf
- Twin 4.5 replaced with ‘new’ fast firing Mk8 single barrel 4.5 inch gun
- After super-structure block (hanger) replaced with that already designed for the T22, including single Sea Wolf launcher
- Sea Slug removed, flight deck extended aft over the quarter deck. Sea Slug magazine used as Sea Wolf magazine.
- Port and Starboard mid-ships Sea Cat launchers replaced with Breda ‘Fast 40’ turret – slaved to existing Sea Cat director
3. T43 Frigate – the T42 mod for ASW and Surface warfare as a T21 replacement
- Goalkeeper replaces fore and aft 909 radars as main self defence / anti-missile weapon system
- Port and starboard mid-ships BMARC twin 30mm
- Exocet replaces Sea Dart launcher
- 4.5 Magazine extended into Sea Dart magazine for greater number of rounds (based on FI experience on the “gun line”)
4. T84 Air Defence Destroyer
- Hull based on that of HMS Bristol
- Machinery the same as T22
- Forward 909 on the centerline, aft 909 off-set to port
- Aft 910 off-set to starboard, port and stbd forward 910’s
- Single Sea Wolf launcher, plus forward Sea Dart launcher with greater magazine capacity than the T42
- 4 x BMARC twin 30mm (2 each port and starboard).

When the CIA got the Egyptians to reverse engineer the SAM-7, I understand it was improved with a longer lasting battery.
Knapp of the earth flying in excess of 450kt whilst being shot at from all sides with a highly trained and heavily armed enemy CAP “somewhere” and you have to tell the difference between this,
http://albatross133.tripod.com/Images/SS_Uganda-2.jpg
and this,
http://www.shipphotos.co.uk/images/canberra.jpg
The Argentine pilots were professionals. Wasn’t worth the risk.
Others have said the argies thought she was a hospital ship and they left her alone. Given the fact she was a very famous ship and it was widely reported I’n the news she was carrying marines this seems wrong to me
Me as well – Argentina had been officially informed by the Red Cross about the UK hospital ship (Uganda). In fact, COMAW defined a Red Cross zone north of the islands and a heli corridor between there, San Carlos, and the carrier group, as a safe area for both sides’ hospital ships. The Argies were informed of this and in fact used the zone for their ship.
It isn’t that bad x, put them in dri-clad and they can last pretty long. As for batteries, true, but remember, batteries are just a source of power, as long as you can match wattage and amperage, it doesn’t really matter the source of power is from a US battery pack or a car battery. And remember, power transformers are simply solenoids of wire any competent electrical engineer can make.
I had a course mate in Uni from Afganistan once. Don’t assume the country is “darkest Africa” with people living in mud huts and hunting with spears. They have a tech base too, abet an unevenly distributed one.
Stingers aren’t AK’s. They can’t be fixed and fettled over a forge by Hindu Kush gun maker. They degrade without attention and care by technicians. Batteries are particular vulnerable.
JH, the CIA seems to have done a good job buying back those couple of hundred Stingers from Muhajideen in A-stan (as none have been used in the present conflict)
– the problem is that 3000 or so pieces of similar kit went missing just in Libya