Whilst researching for information on the runway at Port Stanley I came across this document, interesting stuff for those with in interest in Ships Taken Up From Trade (STUFT) in general and specifically, that of MV Astronomer.
Although most people tend to concentrate on MV Atlantic Conveyor and use that example to illustrate how civilian ships could be turned almost overnight into aircraft carriers she was simply an aircraft ferry.
MV Astronomer however was always meant to ‘operate’ aircraft, helicopters specifically.
A fascinating read and important source of information
Lots more at Rick Page, click here to visit
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Awesome reading. Thanks for linking. 6 days to turn the ship around from LoLo to LPH !
All this great stuff and a mexe-mention
Can you imagine the fuss that would be caused if we asked Babcock or BAE to do that today? You’d never get her ready inside 6 months (the health and safety case alone would be epic)!
I love the phrase ‘chaff chuckers’ – I’m going to use that in my next Thursday War!
Doesn’t this tend to support the notion of making sure a military ship has a proper peacetime role?
Roll on the humanitarian disaster relief / hospital ship I’ve been planning for some time now ;-) Some may see some similarities with an LPD (due to the rapidly deployable land craft to get refugees and patients to the ship). Some may see similarities with an LPH (due to the long-range, fast transit, any terrain casualty evacuation copters).
However, I like to think of it as a Landing Hospital Dock/Auxiliary.
The warship’s peace time role is to be a warship. Warships as ships have high utility, but they are extremely specialised. Just because warships can assist in humanitarian efforts because of their underlying high utility it doesn’t mean their design should be “compromised” to enhance that aspect further.
x,
“The warship’s peace time role is to be a warship”
Yup, that’s what I’m suggesting should change. It’s a waste. I’m not suggesting that the wartime role should be compromised in any way, but a few NHS doctors and nurses instead of military medics doesn’t compromise the ship. Neither does using comfy little boats rather than LCU Mk10 or LCVP Mk5. Neither does embarking a UK Air Ambulance instead of Wildcat/Apache or Merlin/Chinook.
Surely?
x,
Just to make sure we’re on the same page… it’s how you “sell” the ship (to HMG), rather than what it actually is ;-)
@ Simon
I understand the method in your madness young sir. :)
But as I think APATS and Somewhat will tell you doing what the RN does day to day already is enough without diluting the effort much more. The high utility of the ship, like a LPD, (that is ship in toto as in crew and hull), is about 99% of what you want. And those in government, that is the real government aka the civil servants in the F&CO know (even if the occasional nudge perhaps) the latter. This takes us back to how overseas aid is spent.
(If some of that 10 or more billion pounds was used to pay our brightest and best to go “medical school” then we would have lots of doctors so we could send some abroad to help others.)
Had a lecturer once who told our class “India does not need more Doctors, they need more Sanitation Engineers.” He was pointing that out to the medical students in the class in case they wanted to “Go to India” to help out.
@ Observer
Apparently many junior doctors are told on their first day that the bin man/garbage man does more for public health than they will ever do.
The point was here in the UK we have a high number of foreign doctors working in the NHS. Contrast that with Spain which has more Spanish doctors than there are posts. For me if a kid is bright enough to be a doctor and wants to be doctor the NHS should pay them and house all the way through their studies on top of zero tuition fees. It is UK “problem” which you may not be aware.
x, I subscribe to the principle that in this world, like the song from The Sound of Music, nothing comes from nothing. So, free tution and housing? Who really pays? Beside, being a doctor is one of those phase career things, large chunks of the population wants to be doctors at one time or other. Free for all of them?
Besides, my cousin paid for her medical tution by working part time selling products door to door, you’ll get little sympathy from me for free tution. More than the desire and the brains, they also need the burning drive to get to where they want to be, which I see as a good thing as the drive to be the best will also be the drive to “win” against any medical condition, leading to the most effort at effective healthcare.
@ Observer
I would rather pay one medical student than fund ten sociology students.
Obviously you would only fund those actually taking the pre-med degree course and only those with a suitable grades. I see it no differently than HMG paying for an FJ pilot who will do a decade’s service before going off to fly for an airline for a goodly sum. Is a bed and minimum wage too much to ask? Especially considering that it would be only a small portion of their entire NHS career pay. Never mind the costs of ongoing training.
Um. I have never wanted to be a medical doctor, then again I tend to be atypical. I am troubled by why some choose to become dentists, but I am receiving help for that problem.
Good for your cousin BTW.
Why not link it to a scholarship then? Tution for x years of service? Pun not intended.
“I would rather pay one medical student than fund ten sociology student”
Because understanding organisational behaviour, the media and society is such an unimportant task and offers no real benefits huh?
Typical narrow minded, myopic nonsense. I simply fail to see why efforts to understand the context in which we all live might be considered a waste of time and effort.
I shall refrain from anti-social puns, in both sense of the word. :)
@ Observer – Vet’s Benefits and Military Scholarships have served the US well for years; we also ought to look at transferring married quarters and many resettlement and welfare issues into an HMAF//Veterans Housing Association – I’m a Director of a Housing Association with approaching 20,000 properties, and I am very confident that if that side of the business was run by the users – with professional staff that they recruited and managed – everybody would benefit…
Crikey! We’re on education again.
Apprenticeships is what this country is lacking. Especially in engineering and applied sciences (this includes medicine if anyone’s interested).
It’s about time we realised this and allowed business to get cheap labour in exchange for real experience. The forces are more at fault than most as they should provide civvy jobs even if that’s only for students. There’s little better applied science than war – theoretical, I hasten to add.
Hardly only the UK. I’ve always thought that apprenticeships were a wonderful idea.
@ Phil
Never said sociology shouldn’t be studied did I? Where did I say it shouldn’t be studied? Please point it out to me?
As I have asked you in the past PLEASE DONOT COMMENT ON MY COMMENTS AND I WILL NOT COMMENT ON YOURS. If you are as bright as you think you should be able to understand that……..
This isn’t your playground x. First you warn off Chris for being aggressive for replying to your post and now I can’t comment on what I fancy. But you’ll be pleased to know I do actually manage to avoid commenting on 95% of your comments.
@Phil,
I was also on the banned list for a while :) . It is like a club.
@ Phil
I think it is you and Chris B who regard this place as your playground and like all fighting from weak position all you are doing is accusing others of your crime because you can’t come up with anything concrete. You are pathetic. Please do me a favour and try to ignore 100% of my posts.
@ APATS
You still owe me a £10 for that club tie. Seriously the difference with you I was joking. With Chris B and Phil I find their smug simplistic small-mindedness thinking a little too much. I have enough going on without their ego problems interrupting my day.
Just chill out x. Nobody here gives a shit that you think I’m a twat. I am sure your opinion is held by others but they don’t go on about it.
The only person I take a haughty attitude toward is my best friend Bob and its a very deliberate exercise. Everything else is in the spirit of debate.
Great read …only just found this … I was there! I was one of the Navy crew and was the one who designed the ‘HMS Incredible’ flag. Great to put some flesh on the bones of my diminishing memory. Good memories!
Welcome to Think Defence Martin and thanks for your comment