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  • wirralpete on Open Thread 26@repulse, jules etc ... How about mars ss replacing helo lift and combine various forts argus and diligence with a flexible design to accomodate each role required, two to be funded thru DFID to provide a humnitarian relief capability 365 days provides a helicopter hangar able to 5-6 medium lift...
  • A Caribbean Perspective on Open Thread 26@Repulse - if you are referring to my post, I wasn't referring to just the LPDs, I did say "amphibious operations" as a whole. My point was more that the current structure of the Navy is very much defined by the amphibious requirement and any reduction of that role would...
  • Jules on Open Thread 26@Repulse, all sounds good to me but like a few others here I just cannot see Mr Osbourne letting £5-600,000,000 out of his grasping little mitts for an LHD but I totally agreee with you that a Heli carrier, crammed with your vision of Choppers is an attractive one, and...
  • Mark on Open Thread 26Simon Depending on exactly what the prime minster means by having both carriers operational, I find it hard to see the lpds making it thru sdsr15. Not having a hanger on the lpd is an issue, can see both being put into extended readiness or sold when pow is built...
  • Simon on Open Thread 26Mark, I think the big question is will our LPDs get replaced in a couple of decades with a couple of LHDs or will the whole amphib part of the equation be dropped in favour of air assault only. I can see China exporting their ballistic "carrier killers" to keep...
  • Mark on Open Thread 26There was I think a rusi paper around the time of the last sdsr that suggested we either start to pick a speciality to invest in or by default we would essentially become a contributory force. I think we've choose the default option. It's very difficult to imagine a UK...
  • Simon on Open Thread 26I'd love to keep HMS Ocean but I fear it's rather unlikely. Added to that, we simply don't need it once POW is in service (and crewable). The CVF + LPD + 2 x Bay is all that we really need as it gives us the ability to force entry...
  • Think Defence on Open Thread 26read all about it here http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/ship-to-shore-logistics/opening-the-port-at-umm-qasr-iraq-2003/
  • Repulse on Open Thread 26@TAS: Wasn't Al Faw primarily an airborne night assault, followed up with a LST with supplies?
  • TAS on Open Thread 26Have a video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsvE7pfBn3I
  • Repulse on Open Thread 26Removing the LPDs do not remove "amphibious operations", nor does it make the entire RN pointless. @Observer: Whilst I can see that LPDs do bring the ability to move heavy kit over the beach, I do have to ask where do you see this is needed (or likely) given the...
  • TAS on Open Thread 26TD, If we've proven one thing we are good at recently, it's dropping bombs. Air defences are much more vulnerable to attack than ground forces - especially from those newfangled F35 thingies and the odd drone. Plus, helicopters move at 120kts+ - vehicles do not. It's easy to deny freedom...
  • stephen duckworth on Open Thread 26But does such a LPD have 20,000 m2 of deck space and bunks for 10,000 troops . My tongue in cheek proposal for a converted cargo ship design as a one time use assault ship loaded to the gunnels with state of the art MBT's and heavy infantry armour is...
  • Observer on Open Thread 26duck, LPD/LPHs should not be compared with destroyers packed to the bulkheads with expensive electronics. The price range is definitely not going to be the same. To compare like for like, that 100 million pounds could buy a reusable Endurance LPD or 4 Makassar LPDs
  • WiseApe on Open Thread 26Our invite lost in the post? http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2912
  • stephen duckworth on Open Thread 26On beach assault why not build/buy second hand something like the Emma Maersk , crop it down to a six meter freeboard and plate it over .Build a 'hotel' complex at the stern to house 10,000 or so . 10 storeys at 5m2 per body gives 5,000m2 per floor ,...
  • stephen duckworth on Open Thread 26@Chris Years ahead of schedule? The Army? Saving money? Targets hit? It's got to be a first ;-)
  • A Caribbean Perspective on Open Thread 26"the RN loses a bit of shipping, " I'll say it does - remove the requirement for amphibious operations and there's no need for Ocean or the Albions, plus the RFA can get rid of the Bays and Argus. Which leave the RM with rigid raiders and rowing boats -...
  • Chris on Open Thread 26Understrength and not growing: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33638492
  • Think Defence on Open Thread 26If we are landing in a completely uncontested environment then at what threat level will the objective be at that we are flying slow helicopters into? You say mines, IED's and FAC's. I say AAA, MANPADS and triple digit sams? Kind of the same problem, no? The argument that the...
  • stephen duckworth on Open Thread 26In terms of supporting a STOM assault a supply method could be by fixed wing air operating from the nearest secure runway whether existing , adapted from a road or roughed out . We've bought military transports , C17,C130 and their replacements A400M. A similar strip could be seized,adapted or...
  • Observer on Open Thread 26@NaB I'm almost afraid to ask you what your idea of "unarmed combat" is. "It's just a flesh wound!" :) @TAS I can see some scenarios where STOM might be valid. We have an exercise that simulates one of the outer islands being taken and a need to retake the...
  • Mike on Open Thread 26I can think of a bunch of Islands being built in the South China Sea at the moment where the USMC probably wouldn't mind us lending an Amphib hand in the future!
  • wf on Open Thread 26It does seem that given the number of Merlin's and Chinooks available, the max we could ever lift and support for a day or two by air would be a single Commando. Given how cheap the likes of Albion and LCU/PASCAT are in comparison to running a fleet of Chinooks,...
  • TAS on Open Thread 26STOM has been around for ages as one of those theoretical concepts that nobody has yet quite managed to get into core, as it were. Get in, achieve an objective and get out. It is fundamentally about avoiding the lengthy logistics buildup and vulnerable 'tail' across the beach that an...

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