Last of the Type 45 class pushes out for second stage sea trials
DUNCAN, the sixth and final Type 45 destroyer built by BAE Systems, has today set sail from the company’s Scotstoun shipyard on the Clyde to embark on her second stage sea trials off the west coast of Scotland.
During the next 19 days at sea, DUNCAN will undertake an extensive program of trials, including final testing of the ship’s power and propulsion, combat systems, navigational and communications equipment ahead of her handover to the Royal Navy in March next year.
Jennifer Osbaldestin, Type 45 Program Director at BAE Systems, said: “Today marks a significant achievement in what has been a highly successful Type 45 program as the final ship embarks on her sea trials. The team has worked tirelessly to put DUNCAN to sea to demonstrate her outstanding capabilities and there is a real sense of pride at reaching this milestone.
“The effective partnering between industry, the Royal Navy and the Ministry of Defense has been key to the success of this program and will continue to drive DUNCAN towards Acceptance off Contract in March, when all six Type 45 destroyers will have been delivered to the Royal Navy.”
And a nice video;
…..
Daring
Dauntless
Diamond
Dragon
Defender
Duncan?
Does anyone else see a certain lack of consistancy on the name topics?
We have virtues, mixed with roles mixed with a mythical animal and a mineral thrown in to cap it off. Then we have some random sod by the name of Duncan.
It really looks like a list generated by some computer when asked to pick “Anything that starts with D.”
Guess we should be glad we didn’t end up with HMS Dodo.
i dont think it matters what they are called,they are a much needed aaw destroyer which will go on and prove their high value/cost.the only trouble is 6 wont be enough and isnt enough, when we get the carriers at sea.we should really have a fleet of the original 12.but uk governments of the modern day appear hell bent on total emaciation of our armed forces.the fleet in particular
Welcome to TD Ian, why do you say the fleet in particular?
The services have been reduced equally by pretty much any measure you care to use
@Observer
Hardly a “random sod”, Obsvr. Duncan (if the vessel is named after the same individual) was the generous and gracious king of Scotland whom Macbeth murders to obtain the crown. Not that graciousness and generosity are particularly qualities that you need in a destroyer, though!
What puzzles me is why that name has beeen chosen among a mythical animal, a mineral, and others. Is it some kind of tribute to the Scots or even a sop of some kind?
There have been Dido’s, if no Dodos. She could enter and leave harbour with Dido’s (pop singer) White Flag playing over the MBS.
I’ve always assumed it was Admiral Duncan of Camperdown fame:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Camperdown
Note lack of CIWS still. Hopefully this will be addressed on batch 2 with Close In Laser System powered by their fusion reactors.
Personally, I would have been very happy to have had HMS Dodo, and indeed Dido – perhaps topped of with Dreadnought to provide a suitably warlike ring…nine would have done it nicely for me, even in current straitened circumstances.
Mind you, I am listening to the Archers and even poor Emma has been caught at the soup kitchen by her mum, so perhaps we should be grateful for small mercies!
I was always a bit miffed that the names Despatch and Defiance weren’t used. Dreadnought is traditionally a capital ship name for new, revolutionary classes, for which I don’t think the T45 are really worthy.
Although I would have loved to have seen more built their is really no point in bemoaning the lack of extra’s because it’s not as if we could just order some more. The whole production line has been closed and a lot of the equipment apparently destroyed.
In terms of cost, timing and efficiency it would be far easier to try and get more T26 and bump up the fleet that way.
@ Gloomy
Emma at a soup kitchen? I thought Ed’s dairy heard was going well? I must now go to found what is happening….
@ Chally
I prefer to think more in terms of getting more Sea Viper to sea than having more T45. Though I have grand hopes for SeaCeptor. And one of the reasons why I think we need to scrap any idea of 150 or whatever F35a for the RAF and just go for F35b.
@WiseApe
I have read your link and of course you are right. How stupid of me to suggest the Macbeth connection. Just goes to show what yawning gaps there are in my knowledge of military history!
@x – I’d like to see them with anything they are fitted for; and also some serious work on a TLAM capacity; on Ed and Emma, the milk price has been cut…
@Challenger – I thought there was still the hope of selling some T45s – what part of the manufacturing capacity has been destroyed as opposed to mothballed?
However, I do agree on the T26, and would like to see the MHPC design and build brought forward…but then I guess we all would, apparently including the CDS!
Should have been HMS Defiant.
@ Gloomy
Milk prices? Oh gawd! I love The Archers it is one of the best comedy programmes the BBC has ever done. Bumbling Jethros and the middle class oppressors, wonderful stuff!
As for CDS well if thinks it is a good idea the Army could send some bayonets on one of these,
http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/boats/1540.aspx
and the leave RN to get on with proper work.
@x – Be fair – he might really support a broad spectrum ocean-going navy with adequate numbers of large warships, as well as an enhanced capacity appropriate for forward-based patrolling – and the other hearts and minds/disaster relief/diplomatic and intelligence gathering/scientific and hydrographic tasks that a serious Navy run by a maritime nation with a long and proud history can provide…
Sorry, think I dozed off and started dreaming for a couple of sentences then…
@Gloomy Northern Boy
I have never heard of any intention or hopes for selling T45 abroad, T26 seems to be the only marketable vessel we are pinning our hopes on at the moment (with the exception of small Wave and River class buys that Brazil were interested in and possible MHPC export way down the line).
I’m afraid I can’t remember the source, but I definitely remember reading that the jigs or rigs (whatever they are called) were disposed of after HMS Duncan was in the water.
@x
I have high hopes for Sea Ceptor as well!
Of course Sea Viper is a fantastic bit of kit, but I think imagining more T45 heading down the slipway is a fantasy too far. Even assuming that the money was available and manpower requirements met they would still be pricey ships, not in commission until the early 2020′s and significantly younger than the first 6.
Give me the money and the crews and id buy more T26 without a shadow of a doubt. They may not bring more Sea Viper to the party, but they would at the very least enable the T45 to focus on their primary role when they need to and not have multiple burdens weighing them down.
There is no such thing as a production line for T45 and never was. As far as the ship platform is concerned, the only thing remotely resembling “jigs” are the steel frames on which the units are built and for which those with curvature are the most significant. They are very easily replicated in a shipyard at minimum cost.
What is probably much harder to restart will be production of the Sampson MFR, the 20MW electric motors and the Great White Turbine. None of these could remotely be thought of as being a production line – they’re all effectively hand-built – but in the absence of follow-on orders, there may be elements that have been disposed of, but I would not wish to suggest that this is the case.
Aside from those bits of kit, T45 is probably in a better state from a restart PoV than previous designs, because the design info is properly digital (as opposed to scanned drawings) and compatible with the current shipyard NC machines etc.
@Not a Boffin
I may have been a bit hazy on the details but you seem to ultimately agree with me on the point that some elements of the construction infrastructure and equipment have been sold off or scrapped, stuff that could only be replaced with substantial amounts of money.
I agree T45 is probably an easier class to start up when compared to others, but I still don’t think it’s ultimately as easy and cost effective as people make out.
It must require significant manpower being reassembled, large amounts of material that will cost more because it’s not being purchased in bulk and regenerating/replacing all of that technical infrastructure that enabled the original builds. Put all of those elements together and it wouldn’t cheap.
As I said earlier, if in a fantasy situation I found myself with more money and manpower I would strive to get more T26, at a push T26 with Sea Viper if it was so desired. The last thing id do would be to restart a whole other project for a handful of extra ships.
@Challenger – I can’t remember where I read about overseas sales for the T45, and perhaps it was in the context of showing T45 off in order to attract orders for T26? Immaterial, in any event – unless it can be used as the basis for a Hyuga-type vessel for amphibious warfare in the 2020s – an idea that somebody postulated on the HMS Ocean thread…
Which in the light of @Not a Boffin’s post might be more possible than I thought?
Wasn’t there an interest in T45 from the Saudis at some point in the last couple of years?
Possibly a good bit of kit to have floating around the various gulfs and Red-Med Sea. They’d be able to help enforce “no fly zones” around the various hotspots there???
Can we have a thread on the Astute sea trials upfuck?
Alex, that was a few pages ago.
Mike, Obsvr and I are two totally different people. And often at cross purposes. At least I hope so, or I would be the victim of one hell of a split personality.
Haven’t did Macbeth in ages. Fun times.
A modern version of the 3 witches.
“By the prickling of my thumbs, something evil this way comes!”
“It is an election year, they tend to do walkrounds at this time.”
And I so agree HMS Defiant should have made the cut, better than HMS Dragon. One ship that should NOT be deployed in the Middle East. Too easy to caricature if something goes wrong, along with the evil religion conotations.
Ian, if it doesn’t matter what it’s called, do you want to serve on the HMS Dildo? Or HMS Dumbo? HMS Doozy? If these are ships meant to show the flag, their name must inspire. And by inspire, I mean respect, not snickers.
Re: Sea Viper
Um. Custom boards aren’t uncommon. I can’t see them using any custom ICs not in this day and age; so no problems there. As for the mechanical bits again I can’t see them being too much of a problem. Perhaps my background in IT and coming from a family of electricians who spent their working lives supporting light engineering leads me to being a tad optimistic, but…..
That just leaves those 20MW motors. Again custom windings aren’t anything out of the ordinary, though the scale is a a bit breathtaking. As to the control circuitry not really a problem.
@ Observer re ship names
There was a bit of a ding dong a few years back when a group of PO’s wrote to the RN’s in-house newspaper The Navy News complaining about ships’ names being a bit tame. They wanted something a bit more pugnacious and didn’t want to go to war in a ship named after a market town in the Home Counties.
@Observer
Oops! Second mistake in one day! Apologies to you and Obsvr. Love the “quote” from Macbeth. Some real truth contained there.
NaB,
“What is probably much harder to restart will be production of the Sampson MFR, the 20MW electric motors and the Great White Turbine”
I thought the 20MW Converteam motors were being used on QE and the new American excuse for a sea-base? Surely they are production line stuff by now?
@Wiseape
“Note lack of CIWS still. Hopefully this will be addressed on batch 2 with Close In Laser System powered by their fusion reactors.”
Ummm like the dreaded threat of the daleks ……. lasers work in straight lines only …… cunning indeed.
@Mike
And then there were three
There is an article in the Sunday Times suggesting that now the T45 is complete and when the carriers are complete big shipyard cuts will happen. This isn’t exactly new news but I do worry about gaps. The Astute film on the other thread points out the obvious, gaps cost money and/or skills and experience.
Net result is normally more problems and more expense.
Challenger – read what I said – ” very easily replicated at minimum cost”. There is no vastly expensive technical infrastructure to be rebuilt. The only question is how much RR/Converteam and BAE Insyte would charge for additional units of the propulsion chain and the MFR.
GNB – destroyer hullforms do not good amphibious vessels make. End of.
Simon – there is no such thing as a “production line” when what you are producing is supplied in handfuls of units. They are all essentially hand-built. PoWs were finished last year I think.
The ST article by Karl West (who appears to have some sort of agenda) is littered with inaccuracies. However, it is correct that at least one of the shipbuilding facilities of Scotstoun, Govan or Portsmouth will have to close. What is slightly more interesting is the unnamed source that suggests reducing the skill levels required for shipbuilding in favour of unspecified “aerospace” jobs. If I were a suspicious type, I might have thought that this was an internal pitch from BAES to get some of the “subsidy” redirected to another core sector within BAE, prior to selling off shipbuilding (which the BAE head shed are desperate (allegedly) to do…….
@Opserver3
“And then there were three”
I can’t cope with two and now you tell me this! Still, I might manage, although I am in my third dotage!
@Not A Boffin
You make it all sound suspiciously simple, as if the first steel could be cut tomorrow!
It’s all rather academic though, not just because this is all fantasy, but also because even if their was strong support to build more the actual unit costs just wouldn’t be acceptable. They weren’t cheap by any stretch of the imagination to start with, a small handful of extra ships built years after the previous 6 are never going to be financially viable.
@ Chally
The US is still building Burke’s. The big costs have already been paid out. The last ship is yet to commission. You talk as if we want to resurrect Leander (the ship, not the admiral.)
Building the ships would be relatively simple. Building the procurement case much less so. In any case you’d probably want to avoid the Great White Turbine this time around, which would mean a propulsion system redesign……..
The US never stopped building Arleigh Burkes though, they have been in permanent construction since they cut the steel for Arleigh Burke in 1987.
The only way I can see any more AAW assets being ordered is if after building the 8 ASW T26 the decision was made to modify the design of the GP variant to make it an AAW variant.
At the basic level this would simply require swapping out the 997 radar for a multi function phased array radar and putting Aster 30 or similar in the silos.
The requirement for an AAW platform to have a separate long range air search radar is I believe going to disappear with the performance being shown by modern multi function phased array radars.
@x
‘You talk as if we want to resurrect Leander (the ship, not the admiral.)’
Why not, great ships, the workhorse of the fleet, I’ll take 20!
@APATS
Agreed. There will be no more T45s. T26 will be the main surface combatant form for the next generation or so. I would hope the commitment to at least 13 stays but I would expect batch building to allow for changes in future needs. Go for the first 8 ‘full fat’ TAS plus strike length silos and see how it goes. The next 5 may be more of the same, lighter armed GP version or could be extra AAW assets.
@APATS
I agree that if we did ever have a desire or need for more AAW assets then adding it into the tail end of the T26 programme would be the way to go.
Who know’s, after 13 RN ships and a few exports the T26 may be cheap enough for us to go for a few more!
@ Chally
Have I taught you nothing? Surely you mean 40?
There is the rub. It doesn’t matter how good SeaViper is or SeaCeptor will be the ship herself can only be in one place……
@x
I didn’t want to overreach myself, but yeah 40 sounds good!
It stands to reason that the really prized assets such as T45 should be preserved for their primary roles, and the best way to do that is to get as many T26 in the water as possible.
Looking up the first of HM’s ships to hold these ‘D’ names, they don’t seem too lucky a bunch.
The first Duncan was wrecked, as was Dragon. Dauntless and Diamond were captured by the French. Daring managed to avoid capture by the French, but only by being run aground and burned by the crew. And, as part of an 1802 peace treaty with Napoleon (back to war in 1803), Defender was sold off to compensate the House of Nassau-Orange for their losses to France.
@BB
Are you suggesting there should be a HMS Doomed?
In the words of a famous (fictional) scot ‘We’re doomed, we’re all doomed……’