I wonder if the MoD will consider this in the forthcoming maritime rotary UAV.
I like the way US forces use the Little Bird/Defender and having an ‘optionally manned’ version seems to make a lot of sense.
Think DefenceUK Defence Issues and the odd container or two
Nice but perhaps a bit betwix and between what RN want and what they can afford – I’m guessing they want something twin-engined which can at least lift sonar and sonar buoys if not lightweight torpedoes, but will probably end up with something like MQ-8B. Or, if their ambitions are even more restrained than that, something like ScanEagle/Integrator. At least this proposal can land properly at sea
Hmmmmmmmm I’ve always had a hankering for a not-normally manned MERLIN EH-101, think SKYCRANE and you’d have an exemplary heavy lifter……..just a thought……….WILDCAT has obvious possibilities for the smaller, Combat UAS role………….
O often wonder what the point of a UAV that is just a radio control normal sized asset. It does not seem to offer the small size and endurance associated with most UAVs and may well stop you embarking a standard helo.
Then I watched the video.
Apparently it is for dangerous missions (roger their job) or to stop them becoming bored (oghh diddums).
So in order to improve air crew rest hours prevent them doing anything exciting or boring lets buy it.
I sometimes think that people nowadays believe the solution must be unmanned before they have even examined the problem.
A smaller system gives you the ability to carry two or three UAVs in place of one helicopter, or to operate from smaller patrol vessels. And a smaller, lighter single engine craft should be cheaper to operate than a full size ‘copter. Less of an obvious target too, if your UAV is spotting for NGS for example.
The wobbles in Firescout’s recent history, and UAV losses in general, should make folks wary of trying to make something like Wildcat work unmanned. IMO the smaller systems have it. Firescout seems to have overcome its problems and looks to have a fairly sound future with the US Navy and CG – wouldn’t be a bad choice. I’d favour Firescout over the even smaller systems like Skeldar or Camcopter – enough of a payload to remain flexible and relevant.
@Brian Black – “IMO the smaller systems have it.” – I tend to agree but it largely depends on what RN want their UAVs to do (pure recon, mid-course missile correction, drug boat shadowing, NGS spotting, sub hunting, sub killing, etc) and what budget will be available. Fortunately, it does look as though this is a competitive sector with lots of options.
I lean towards letting the manned helos do the “heavy/intensive” stuff like ASW and LMM carrying while using smaller, hopefully numerous, UAVs to do the “spotting.” I see UAVs as a supplement not a replacement for the manned helo – don’t know if RN see them the same way but I’m sure the Treasury will have something to say!
I’m with WiseApe on this one. The US Navy is talking about increasing the size of firescout to that of a manned helo. I don’t like the idea, it may preclude having both a manned helo and multiple UAVs on the small ships I am interested in.
The thing in the back of my mind though is that the Little Birds were very useful in Operation Praying Mantis for taking out small vessels. That may be what they have in mind here.
The USN already has the Fire X (MQ-8C) program in the works. It uses the electronics from Fire Scout on a larger Bell 407 helicopter.
http://www.as.northropgrumman.com/products/fire-x/index.html
There’s also the possibility of adapting the unmanned K-MAX for naval duties. It’s not nearly as fast, but it can lift a lot and is pretty mechanically simple.
Wiseape, there was/is a naval version of the MD500, complete with radar, torpedo, sonar and flotation kit. The Taiwanese navy had a few but I don’t think anyone else bought it. I guess if you couple the kit to the forthcoming MD540 you’ll get greater capabilty but just the single engine unfortunately.
@Ace Rimmer (new series of Red Dwarf any day now!) – thanks for the update, don’t want to seem ungrateful, but this isn’t the sort of thing I hope RN buys. See Chuck Hill’s comment above: “The US Navy is talking about increasing the size of firescout to that of a manned helo. I don’t like the idea, it may preclude having both a manned helo and multiple UAVs” – I worry we may see an erosion of manned helos on RN ships – and I’m talking about our destroyers and frigates not the “small ships” he refers to. Gone are the days when our ships used to deploy with two or more helos on board; I hope the UAVs might partially rectify this.
I think the problem with putting the unmanned software into a manned helo (MQ-8C and Little Bird) is that you always start off with an airframe which is too large and much of the cockpit is just wasted space.
@WiseApe,
On the flip side, using a popular commercial aircraft greatly improves “producability” and the availability of spares & support.
@B Smitty – I’m not knocking larger UAVs per se, your point is a valid one, I just worry that HMG may see them as a substitute rather than a supplement to manned helos. In time they may prove to be just that, but I think this is decades down the road yet and the change should happen for practical operational not for budgetary reasons.
These pics of an unfortunately named US ship may seem alittle off topic, but pics 16-18 show a close up of the Scan Eagle mobile launcher and recovery arm/crane thingy:
http://www.businessinsider.com/photos-uss-ponce-2012-9#the-uss-ponce-has-a-long-and-fabled-history-that-started-during-the-heyday-of-vietnam-and-almost-concluded-earlier-this-year-1
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/iai-offers-panther-tiltrotor-for-ship-based-operations-376840/
Not sure about electric engines for the Atlantic and a bit small. IAI are the leaders in UAVs and won’t be long before a diesel/petrol version arrives. No doubt will be a bit bigger and perhaps use existing Watchkeeper technology? Should do nicely?
@WiseApe,
Hopefully that’s not the case. The USN definitely sees them as supplementary. Hard to do a fast-rope boarding op from a UAV.
Perhaps this will be of interest to RN:
http://defense-update.com/20120919_firescout_weaponized.html
If we win the lottery this would be perfect for CVF. See drawing with a Wasp class in the background, so perhaps aimed at the USMC. Twin lift fans in the wing roots.
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/various.html