General Dynamics in the USA have recently unveiled a new systems called the LWMMG that utilises the .338 Norma Magnum round, positioned between the 7.62mm GPMG and 12.7mm HMG, but based on neither.
The press release says
General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products, a business unit of General Dynamics (NYSE: GD), today unveiled a next-generation Lightweight Medium Machine Gun (LWMMG) at the Joint Armaments Conference in Seattle, Wash.
Identifying an unmet warfighter need, General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products conducted its own research and development program to develop the LWMMG in just over one year. The weapon is designed for low-cost production and for maximum effectiveness at the small unit level, where weight and lethality are decisive factors.
“The LWMMG is an affordable weapon that closes a current operational gap, providing .50 caliber-like firepower in range and effect at the same weight and size of currently fielded 7.62mm machine guns,” said Steve Elgin, vice president and general manager of armament systems for General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products. “Weighing in at 24 pounds and featuring a fully collapsible stock, the LWMMG offers superior mobility and portability in both mounted and dismounted operations.”
General Dynamics’ LWMMG also offers a distinct advantage in both extended and close-in fighting by using the highly efficient .338 Norma Magnum cartridge for increased accuracy and lethality out to 1,700 meters, a distance currently gapped in the operational capabilities of warfighters.
“By employing the larger .338 NM round, the LWMMG delivers twice the range and dramatically increases lethality above the 7.62 round,” said Elgin. “In addition, the LWMMG goes beyond providing suppressive fire and gives warfighters the ability to attack point targets at significantly extended ranges.”
The LWMMG has a firing rate of 500 rounds per minute, a maximum range of 5,642 meters, and is equipped with quick-change barrel technology. In addition to use by dismounted infantry and on ground vehicles, the weapon can be used as the armament system aboard helicopters and littoral craft, providing greater range and effectiveness for those platforms.
“The LWMMG is a well-designed machine gun ideally suited to provide long-range lethality to U.S. and allied forces,” Elgin said.
Interesting.
General Dynamics Lightweight Medium Machine Gun
General Dynamics Lightweight Medium Machine Gun
Click here to read the data sheet and Wikipedia has a good page on the 338 Norma Magnum
There are lots of pluses but ammunition weight might be a problem in the dismounted role and the .338NM isn’t used by anything else we have so it would mean yet another ammunition nature being inserted into the logistics chain.
Is this a solution in search of a problem, a game changer, a piece of equipment that can usefully fill a gap or somewhere in between?
Don’t know if we’d have a use for it, but you can bet your bottom dollar that a savvy old company like GD does not spend a year and $millions reinventing the wheel unless they’ve been tipped the wink by the DoD that there will be a service buyer, and once either the US Army or USMC have bought it, other internationals will line up.
Would be interesting to see if there’s the capability to provide pretty accurate single shot suppressive fire out to 1500m+ – that is something companies cannot do unless they have snipers, which they mostly do, but the snipers are always miles away dressed up like a tree and doing the kitten crawl at 0.02 mph when you want an long range burst and some heavy fire support. I don’t know if this weapon is the one to deliver that single shot accuracy / heavy burst Jekyll and Hyde character, but there may be a need for it.
Presumably it can easily be re-chambered in .338 Lapua, which is a standard nature now.
NAVAIR has been looking for a heavier weapon than the M240 for use on the MV-22 and CH-53. using the 5.56 caliber machineguns in the aerial gunnery role has been found lacking so that’s the market place without the weight penalty of a 50 cal.
That’s the heaviest looking lightweight gun I think I’ve ever seen. Any weight details or did I just miss that like a goon?
… yawn?
@James
I suspect they didn’t really develop it from scratch, GD was the point man for ST Kinetic’s venture into the IAR program, which was a pretty sad failure, but I suspect some of the tech got reused. Compare the general body shape of the gun and the join between the buttstock and the main body of the MG in the 1st picture and the 2nd video (especially the one in the background) with that of the Ultimax 100. A lot of similarities. In fact, it simply looks like a U-100 upsized and chambered for belt loading. Which is a good marketing strategy.
A cynic might ask is the proposed type of ammo within its patent period and if so who owns the patent. MMGs are support not platoon weapons. Proper MMGs don’t need a butt.
Hi James,
Interesting that you positioned it at coy level (I would, too).
RE ” to deliver that single shot accuracy / heavy burst Jekyll and Hyde character, but there may be a need for it”
- Russians have had their platoon support weapon for that for decades, but it has only half of the (claimed) effective range
- on the other hand, in an emergency it can switch to firing the round that the is also used in the rest of the platoon
RE “Presumably it can easily be re-chambered in .338 Lapua, which is a standard nature now”
- would you do that? This round packs 6.5% more efficiently, and has a lower drag factor (I guess the Lapua would still be a preferred choice for snipers; Now, there would still be some in a company, or would such a team become a bn asset?)
Chris B: 24 lb, in the link, at the end of the leading-in article
“Is this a solution in search of a problem…”
It’s a solution for mounted use, the problem being the fact that everything that’s armoured is armoured against 7.62NATO AP at the very least.
This problem calls for an intermediate cartridge between 7.62×51 and 12.7×99.
ACC,
If .338 Lapua is the sniper’s choice, let them have it. All the sniper geeks will have spent years obsessing about it, and it is probably the best answer.
If a .338 LMG is needed for suppressive fire at 1500m, for God’s sake let’s not have a second nature of .338. The QM will go nuts at having to indent for and control two types of nearly identical ammo. As far as I’m concerned, with burst fire it is not accuracy you are after, but the beaten zone and making a shedload of banging and ricochetting noise downrange. For single shot aimed suppressive fire, Lapua is better than anything else in .338, so let’s go with the flow. Real question is can you get both heavy auto AND pretty accurate single shot out of this weapon? If not, GD missed a trick. Might need a barrel change or different optics, but as a support weapon that’s do-able.
As a replacement for the crew-served but especially vehicle mounted .50cal M2 this LWMMG might have a future, if the .50cal gets replaced entirely.
The .338 NM ammo is lighter (in bulk) than the ubiquitous .50cal, and the LWMMG might have a lighter (ring-mount) recoil than the “Ma Deuce” making it more adapatable and an ideal ‘drop-in’ replacement for vehicle and especially helicopter gun mounts.
But vehicles can carry .50cal ammo without penalties so weight is a non-issue in that respect.
But as a (carried) infantry support weapon as a replacement for the 7.62 M240/GPMG – not so much.
Even though the LWMMG screams SOF and undoubtedly some will find their way to the snake-eater community, regular light infantry doesn’t carry .50cal HMGs so the real need for this .338 NM on the platoon/company level is rather moot.
Also, the US Army as prime customer is notoriously conservative re new weapons and ammo (remember those XM-8 /6.8mm projects), so I doubt the LWMMG has any real future.
Then again, Ma Deuce *is* getting really old…
Marcase, the difference in ammo volume is relevant to vehicles. The weights are irrelevant differences.
The reason for why AFVs make much use of 7.62NATO is that they can many times as much belted 7.62 as 12.7.
Well, having done a bit of quick Googling, it appears that the .338 Norma Magnum and .338 Lapua Magnum are based on the same case (.416 Rigby) but the Norma cartridge is shorter. In theory, since rim diameters etc are the same, you could re-chamber all your .338 LM sniper rifles for the Norma cartridge but, due to the longer COAL, you maybe couldn’t re-chamber your LWMMG for the Lapua round.
Considering the fact that the .338 Lapua Magnum is already in service with several countries it makes you wonder why GD picked the Norma cartridge for their new machinegun.
Hi Pete, RE ” you could re-chamber all your .338 LM sniper rifles for the Norma cartridge but, due to the longer COAL, you maybe couldn’t re-chamber your LWMMG for the Lapua round.”
…or have both with the “Remington Modular Sniper Rifle (MSR). This is a switch chambering and barrel sniper rifle that can also fire .338 Lapua Magnum, .300 Winchester Magnum, and 7.62x51mm NATO cartridges.” as Wiki says, but who wants to buy new rifles
What would it do?
In a conventional at it battle you need shit loads of firepower downrage making a nasty beaten zone. We already have weapons that can do that and out at the ranges mentioned in the article how on Earth are you going to know where a canny enemy is?
In an Afghan style conflict there are other systems in use that can provide pin point accuracy out at range (snipers) and can smash it up at longer ranges from sangers or vehicles where weight is no issue.
It seems to fill a gap where really there is no actual gap except in Modern Warfare 3.
We already possess and so do most first world armies a variety of systems at company group level that can provide overlapping fields of fires out to a realistic, likely range.
“currently gapped in the operational capabilities of warfighters.”
Some sick came up into my mouth.
This is sort of what I have been going on about. This new .338NM GPMG has been on an ARRSE thread for a week or so.
I think 7.62×51 is too light for the roles asked of it lately, but jumping to .338 NM or Lapua, may be too heavy(esp the ammo).
I think a 7.62+P is probably the way to go. Though you would have to size it 7.7×52 to stop it being used in old,weak guns.
The wars in Iraq/Afghanistan have reminded the top brass that good small arms are needed. Many are now worn from these conflicts. There may be a window for new small arms & calibres in the 2015-25 period.
If you want to look 40 years ahead, look up the US patents on hybrid cartridge/rail gun machine guns.
Would make for an interesting coax or RWS mount, where you have the fire control, optics and stabilization needed to hit targets 1700m away.
You really won’t get ammo commonality between sniper and MMG ammo. Snipers will always need match-grade rounds. So let them have whatever caliber they want.
“As a replacement for the crew-served but especially vehicle mounted .50cal M2 this LWMMG might have a future”
Not going to happen. Way too many M2s in stock to be replaced easily. Been tried, no dice.
“or have both with the “Remington Modular Sniper Rifle (MSR). This is a switch chambering”
And chucking an entirely new adaptable bolt system into a weapon not designed for it? Sounds like a prescription for trouble. These things arn’t exactly LEGO.
“This problem calls for an intermediate cartridge between 7.62×51 and 12.7×99.”
Go straight to 12.7mm. Problem solved.
“We already possess and so do most first world armies a variety of systems at company group level that can provide overlapping fields of fires out to a realistic, likely range.”
So true. No niche for this poor guy.
.338 came into operation on marksmans rifles specifically introduced because of the conditions in Afganistan. .50 sniper rifles being too heavy and 7.62 being limited at range. You have to wonder where such Afgan specials will fit in once the Afgan operation winds down and we go back to jungle bashing or worrying about urban warefare. Post Afganistan you have to bet that funding priorities will move away from Armies so exotic calibres will probably be restricted to the SF world.
Counterpoint, for debate.
ROE developed from Bosnia via the Gulf to Afghanistan are likely to prove enduring, and applicable to future interventions anywhere else. The lawyers are in their comfort zone. Phil and Observer are correct about existing weapons systems offering overlapping coverage (out to 5+ kms for Infantry company and armoured Squadron integral weapons), BUT, once you get beyond 1000 metres it is all of the HE variety, and that is a problem for ROE. A couple of systems buck this trend – Javelin an example.
So the issue is how do you extend the lethality, yet remain on the side of the ROE? You need precision effects.
(BTW, I’m not making a case for this weapon – I don’t know enough about its’ capabilities. But this is a good thread to hijack).
In addition to the existing sniper pair, strikes me you want something like a guided 40mm grenade as direct fire out to about 2000m, and guided 81 mm mortars along with a laser designator on a small UAV under company control covering the 2000-5000m gap. Impress the lawyers enough with the precision aspect, and you’ll get the tick in the box. Both 40mm grenade and 81mm mortar are small enough to kill the enemy without blowing down the house.
Of course, in the gloves off fight, both systems can revert to the balls out “HE and as much as possible” traditional usage.
Do you think it would be a wise investment for a biggish defence company to make a “Universal Target Designator” – assuming that’ll be a laser on a Picatinny rail – and a set of fuses for common HE ammo types that hunt down the laser speckles? Small fuse for 40mm grenades, big fuses for mortars and artillery shells.
In the few instances where you can’t bring anything but HE down on a target (and even then the 81mm is handy) is it worth lugging this thing around just in case its in the right place at the right time? And surely then a MMG is just as bad a weapon in ROE terms?! And if you want it single shot you’ll need a bloke who is trained to that standard, we could call him a sniper or something.
I just don’t see the utility. If it was completely free in every way and hovered their way into battle with no fuel needed for the power source and had hollywood belts of ammo then cool.
I can’t see the weapon being realistically justifiable. On paper it might sound good, but not in the real world with real logistics and weight issues.
Hi Johnno,
As you say “.50 sniper rifles being too heavy”… for A-stan!
- in urban conditions, at lesser ranges, you can take out guys lurking behind walls
- as you say, SF and police/ c-terrorist future for the lesser calibers
But this new “thingy” could be an optional extra at bn level, being capable of both bursts and sniper shots (?) at a distance
Hi James, why lug the heavy mortar barrel around when you can have one of these in a (disposable) backbag – so quite a few for a half-platoon patrol. 1m accuracy and can loiter for 30 mins
http://ytilaerniereh.com/2011/09/12/the-us-army-has-given-aerovironment-a-5-million-contract-for-a-lethal-backpack-uav-called-the-switchblade-it-is-the-first-announced-order-for-this-type-of-weapon-but-it-has-probably-been-in-the-hand/
This one is better (in the sense of showing the iPad steering and accuracy) though not in production yet
Problem is there is no money to got out and buy a new machine gun for the British armed forces.
Given the choice between .338 Norma and .338 Lapua Magnum the latter would be the better choice as it is a NATO standard round with production set up. In respect of this particular machine gun it sounds like US special forces want a machine gun that is more portable then the .50cal and harder hitting the the M240.
But back to my initial point the British army fields the FN Minimi, FN MAG/L7 and the .50cal already which gives good reach out to different ranges. Introducing another machine gun in these cash tight times and with the draw down from Afghanistan is rapidly approaching.
The more acute issue for the army post Afghanistan is funding a replacement for the L85A2 IW. I was talking to the bods from Riflecraft a few weeks back (MOD sction 5 dealer) and they have heard on the grapevine that the Army won’t think about that until 2018. My guess is is with the Afghanistan draw down and the upcoming reduction in manpower for the army they will retire the most sh@gged L85A2 and retain the best rifles for as long as possible. I could even see an incremental replacement program with the most deployable of units like the Paras and Commandos getting new rifles first and other regiments slowly being changed over.
Anyhow don’t expect any new machine guns anytime soon.
They as in” the most deployable of units like the Paras” just had a “day out” shooting with the French rifle (OK, it was under the banner of urban combat training, so probably of no significance)
I have no doubt NEXTER will probably tender a FAMAS variant on any IW replacement contest for the British army. I doubt that it would be short listed on the other hand. It is an older design the L85 with a few inerrant flaws like its delayed blow back operation.
The choice appears to be rebuild L85 again or buy new rifle. I have heard some strong arguments for rebuilding the L85 again as it means rifle racks and training facilities can be retained but the practical question is it possible or cost effective to rebuild the remaining rifles for a third time?!
If its buy new rifle then its a matter of unit cost and the ability of a supplier to meet what will be a large contract plus all the ancillery equipment with offset. I doubt the British Army will want an M4 or AK variant so its down to what else is available. Best bets I think are:
HK G36
HK 416
FN 2000
FN SCAR
CZ 805
Beretta ARX-160
Remington ACR
On top of that expect a few wild cards.
Fedaykin,
wild card no 1. The old SLR. I do appreciate that’s the thoughts of an old war horse with his eyes misting up, but as far as I’m concerned, there was bugger all wrong with it. Never ever went wrong on me, you could trust the calibre to put down anything it hit, it was pretty accurate, and it really was not that heavy, nor 4 mags of 20 rounds too much of a burden to carry around. There was also apparently a trick with a matchstick to convert it to full auto, but I never knew what that was. Didn’t need it, really.
On that basis, I’d vote for the FN SCAR in 7.62, with the 5.56 variant for those who have some need not to carry a proper battle fighting rifle about.
Someone recently said there’d been some technical issues with the FN SCAR. I don’t know what they may have been – cheap plastics or poor manufacturing maybe. But we’ve got enough time to sort that out.
….oddly enough, my brother-in-law in Arizona can get a proper old FN SLR for $950 through some American dealer, all legit. Do you think it would be worth it? I’m certainly thinking of it. We spend 3 weeks a year on his ranch in the summer. Could bring back happy old memories, the $950 over a few years becoming peanuts. Hmmm.
(Obviously, the weapon would be registered to him, I’d only be borrowing it, all above board)
Actually if the US hadn’t just put some more orders for M4 in I could see MoD actually going with M4. HK416 and Berretta to expensive sadly. ACR nope. CZ non-AR mag.
Rebuilding SA80 again. I hope not. It may function now (thanks HK) but come on it is getting on a bit.
We need TAVOR. (That opinion subject to change.)
If it has not already been done to death elsewhere on TD, 5.56 or 7.62 for combat troops****? There was once a time where the wounding ability of 5.56 was thought to be a plus, but armies seem to be going away from that now. Must say my heart was always with 7.62.
**** Not much fussed what is best for loggies or gunners. The Andrew can probably cope with 5.56, and the Kevins won’t matter so long as they are only trusted with fully de-activated classroom instructional versions. They wouldn’t notice any difference anyway.
@ James
If I had brother-in-law in Arizona I would be buying an M1 for him to keep in his gun room. Along with a Ruger GP100 4in (.357), Ruger Blackhawk Hunter (.44mag), Ruger Single-Ten, Colt New Frontier (.45 LC)…
X,
you misunderstand,
aged late 40s, I don’t want to learn any new weapons. I just want to bring back fond memories with the muscle memory, and to teach my happy little boy and teen-angst-ridden girl some moves on a proper weapon that I can remember and not appear to be an idiot by forgetting. To be honest, my girl is more suited to the knee in the balls style of self defence, and I’m right with her on that. Any young bastard that so much as thinks of treating her in the manner I used to think was not just normal, but part of being a young man is going to have a serious shock. Delivered by her in immediate self defence, and then followed up by me in slow time, with planning and complete abuse of my ability to sit back and plan a really nasty campaign. And yes, that is completely double standards, but you only get one daughter in this life. Mrs J is completely with me on this, and she knows what I’m like.
They both went through pre-qual on a Ruger mini 10/24 or something last year, as all visiting children do in my brother in law’s house. Several hundred .22LRs down range, and eventually some soda cans successfully hit at 50 metres.
It is a Ruger 10/22 in 22lr or a Ruger Mini-14 in .223Rem
@Fedaykin
That’s the problem, it’s not the US SF that requested the weapon. No one did.
@x
TAVOR/SAR 21′s are not really outstanding, it’s a basic rifle that goes bang when you pull the trigger. No fancy stuff and you shouldn’t put in any. After all, you won’t want to buttstoke an enemy only to hear “laser targetting on, airstrike ordered.” *oh shit…*
@James
Think any HE, even the 40mm kind, into a populated area at 1km is a pretty much no-no. It’s the area effect, you can’t tell who else might be around. Like Phil said, 1km RoE? Snipers. Nice idea, but way too late. 1980 would have been the right time for it, and if they knew what they know now.
@ACC
No, no blind shooting through walls, absolutely no. You think this is CoD??!! “Cop kills kid through random discharge of firearm”. God, the press will kill the government.
It was the .22LR with iron sights, apparently bought from Walmart for cheap as chips – you have to love America for the consumer culture. I’m not sure a 7 and 12 year old are quite ready for .223. This year we may get Oli moving up a calibre, but only if she wants to. My little boy needs more muscle bulk before he can stand the recoil of a .223, but sod it, he’s only 7 now. First gun I ever fired was a .22 sub-cal conversion on an SLR, and I was in Cadets at that point.
Oli’s quite good at the knee in the balls trick though, and also the “Gone with the Wind” face slap that her mother taught her. Not much used it seems, but fairly shocking when delivered with a screech to alert any adults present. I wish they banned these school dances though – as she’s even more gorgeous than her mother, every boy wants to dance with her.
@ James
Heaven help you when she hits 15. lol
@ Observer
Think of it this way. Look the British soldier has had a rifle diet of unbranded baked beans (read SA80). If we put them on a diet of sirloin (read HK416 or ARX-160) they would choke. No we need to feed them branded baked beans. The TAVOR fits the bill exactly. I like simple things that go bang.
As I said my opinion is subject to change. My preference is for ARX-160. Too expensive and possibly a bit too trick. If we go the AR-15 the options are limitless. HK416 yes. But a carefully selected blend of AR options, perhaps using one of specialist AR builders to provide a prototype may be the way to go. There is a deep pool of small arms expertise in the British Army; a “SA80″ should never happen. I don’t like the idea of the rifle being a cheap system. A premium AR15 comes in at about $1500 and add $500 for optics you are looking at $2000. The UK needs about 100,000 so we are looking at a bill of £200million; I always convert defence dollars into pounds one for one. Two F35s? Two thirds of a T26? (Don’t laugh at the back.) A C-17 with leather seats?
How does the SAR-21 really run young sir? Don’t be shy share…
@ James re parenting
Not really the place to comment on parenting. But over 10 years involved with cadets I saw all sorts of parenting. The worst was the father who let his son do what he wanted to the daughters of others and yet his own daughter lived the life of nun. Two abortions and a suicide attempt between 16 to 18 makes me think he was getting it wrong with her. Tread a careful path. Teenage girls are like expensive foreign sports cars; great until something goes wrong and then it can be very expensive.
Is there no topic we don’t cover here?
Coming up, “Knit that teapot cosey!!!” and it will make a man of you.
X,
problem is, I never realised that night of conception (dunno, got a funny shiver down my spine I’d never had before, thought to myself even on the vinegar strokes “this one’s a bit special”) that I’d be getting a girl who would one day turn into a 1967 Maserati or whatever your analogy leads to. I was actually hoping for a boy to teach rugby to, and who could then join some non-girly regiment and largely replicate my life.
Shit happens. She is however sent by God, and by God she is a devilish little angel. Utterly bloody drop dead gorgeous, and she’s only 12 (fathers can say that sort of thing that would have others under suspicion of nasty things). Twists me round her little finger endlessly. Pretty brainy too. She gets all of that from her mother. My role in her life is to be the one she runs to when her life is a bit wonky, and to have the big open wallet. Earlier this weekend she informed me of the new laptop she wants me to buy – a jaw / floor moment, and I’m still sorting out the bills for her pony’s barbed wire gash and stitches.
I am truly grateful for what God delivered, if a bit apprehensive and also suspicious it’s his revenge on me for all of my serial abuses of gentlemanly conduct. But you have to play the cards you are given.
@ x
CZ-805 can use AR mag, like the G36 the magazine housing is changed over. It might also be the right price for the treasury. I know there are many an old war horse who would love to see a modern SLR variant but nobody makes them in the numbers required and I think the Army itself would regard it as a retrograde step. I know people really push for the M4 but it is a flawed rifle and a retrograde step as well.
My personal choice would be the Beretta ARX-160 but as others have rightly pointed out price could well be a sticking point…then again if the order is big enough its amazing what manufacturers can pull out of the bag on unit price. HK and FN always have a good chance but I wonder if unit price again would be a sticking point with the same caveat with the Beretta if the order is big enough price can be driven down.
As for TAVOR I can see the attraction, small bullpup at apparently a reasonable price…there is just one rather big problem! Its just not politically acceptable, whilst the UK does buy from Israel in respect of defence it tends to be small procurement of very high tec electronics that goes under the radar of the press. A massive procurement of assault rifles would send the left wing press berserk…remember Javelin was not the armies first choice when it comes to a MILAN replacement they wanted an Israeli SPIKE variant. The just couldn’t get around the politics of such a purchase.
Anyhow maybe its getting to be the time that Think Defence does an article or series on the problems of an IW replacement now the A-Stan draw down is coming up.
I have 2 daughters, well
One complete idot sevant dingbat.
—– And
One psycho bitch queen fiend who from the pit of hell.
Both of whome will kill me the day they bring home some poor sap of a fella… I will die laughing at the poor sap.
Daughters- I give you the advice my old Gypsy Grandfather gave ne 30 years ago.
If your having kids, have boys not girls, then you only have one prick to worry about, not thousands…..
I like the comment about fash cars very aposite.
Actually we use to say about the Psycho bitch quen form hell, that she severely restricted our movements asa family.
Under SALT 1 we had to give the soviets 14 days notice if we went out of county…
Top AR-15 for $2000? call it MSRP (Price) $4995
And fits nicely into our headlined matter: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/12/21/noreen-bad-news-338-lapua-semi-auto-ar-style-rifle/
(Not that we need 100.000 of those)
@ Fedaykin
I plumped for M4 more on economic grounds. If the US are buying so many thousands we tack our order on to theirs. Base M4 is still better than SA80. But you are right it is flawed.
I like the Beretta too. It is wizard. Super ergonomics. Field stripping simple. It is a good system it offers UK armed forces so many options. The one size fits all system doesn’t work.
SLR? “Night at the Legion” time. Sorry. The arguments it can reach out to 8nm and kill armoured elephants do nothing for me. In most scenarios (deserts to one side) how often can you see out beyond 400m before there is cover? 300m? 200m? You can’t shoot something you can’t see. Weight of fire outweighs out right reach. Rounds carried outweighs out right hitting power. Whatever that the latter is supposedly as young Philip will point out.
As for TAVOR. We wouldn’t get them to build it. We would just buy the “design” and use over seas aid money to get the Indians to build them for us……..
@ ACC
Somebody like say JP Enterprises will build a rifle for $1500 that will piss all over SA80 spec’s wise.
Heck even a cheap Smith and Wesson Sporter would be better screwed together than the original SA80.
I think a buy of 100,000 is reasonable.
@ James re equine vets
On the whole are mercenary barstewards; money doesn’t buy competence either. It does pay to shop around. Sometimes the old boy network doesn’t work. Just because everybody on the yard or your hunt uses a certain practice doesn’t mean squat. Next time when yours has a small injury try somebody else it could save you a fortune in the future.
Post and rail can cost a small fortune too.
Personally I think horses are dumb. I prefer fowl or small parrots.
Is there no subject this blog doesn’t cover?
X,
re deserts and intervisibility.
Thing is, we’ve been mostly fighting in deserts the last 20 odd years, and all the likely future hotspots seem to be deserts. So the ability to reach out a couple of hundred yards further seems quite useful.
Not sure about armoured elephants (there’s always HESH for them, that will please Mr Fred), but with an SLR you can always crunch it down on a Paddy’s skull if he gets a bit boisterous during a perfectly calm, reasonable and within the law 4 am house raid. Paddy normally falls down the stairs rapidly on those occasions. Try that with an SA80 and it will likely fall to pieces in your hands.
@ James
Well I suppose the RLI loved their FALs. But if you read about their bush war they weren’t tremendously good shots.
I think the 5.56 is here to stay. For a while at least. It is too good a compromise. The only way we will change is if the US change.
A properly constructed 5.56 rifle should be more than adequate for skull bashing. There are such things as forged and milled uppers and receivers. Not every rifle uses pressings…