Think Defence hopes to start sensible conversations about UK defence issues, no agenda or no campaign but there might be one or two posts on containers, bridges and mexeflotes!
Picture 1 = De Lise carbine. Very nice, combined Lee Enfield action with .45 ACP ammo. Action was noisier than firing! Good range for a silenced weapon too.
Picture 2 = Multi-barrel grenade launcher. I can’t help thinking these are going to be a very important infantry weapon in the future; allows a serious ammount of firepower at the section level with many different types of ammo AND is very useful for police/peace-keeping roles with less lethal rounds. Add in some hi-tech and you could have a (relatively) cheap XM-25 type weapon…
Gareth, its an ARWEN, 37mm for ‘riotous assembly’work, I don’t think they ever developed anything lethal for it, that being the point of 37mm, your couldn’t fit a 40mm round into it
James
The SLR was my favoured weapon of all those I was issued with. I never really believed the hype about 5.56 taking 3 off the battlefield (1 wounded plus 2 medics) instead of leaving one dead on it, and I read somewhere recently that many armies are going off 5.56 and back to heavier calibres.
x
Until recently there was an American company selling Sterling kits.
Imagine the access some US states have to firearms and there was a company thought it worthwhile to produce a Sterling clone. Wow. The mind boggles.
Gareth Jones
@ TD – I thought it was; just taking the opportunity to play fantasy weapons… ;p
Talking of which, does anybody else see a Vickers MMG on a tripod and start thinking about possible roles for mini-guns on the modern battlefield? Just me….?
Mike W
@Gareth Jones
Gareth, of course TD is right, as he invariably is. However, you are also right in that the ARWEN has a multi-barrelled version, as well as a single-shot one (ARWEN ACE). It fires unique 37 mm ammunition, normally plastic baton rounds wich can incapacitate up to approx. 100m. There are also special rounds for riots etc., including CS gas ones and ones which cut through doors before spraying CS gas. I think the ARWEN is still in service with special forces.
The real reason I am writing in is to say that I am sure you are right about multi-barrelled grenade launchers having an important future as infantry weapons. I think the US Marines aleady have a 40mm weapon of this kind in service – South African origin, I think, but the name escapes me. Like you, I had also wondered why there is not an infantry version of the Mini Gun. I have thought the same thing about a light vehicle mounted version of the 30mm cannon but I am probably also playing fantasy games.
Our skipper on the Bicester tipped our boarding party Gemini over by sticking some wheel on while we were on the boat rope – had to be rescued by the Belgian sweeper we were about to board – point being as my “assault troop lifejacket” did not self inflate as its supposed to, I quickly divested myself of my SMG ! Bastards tried to charge me for it though !
Lookily had enough air in my foulies to keep me afloat despite the Clansman 344 strapped to my back……
Mike W
TD
Thnks very much for the videos, TD. It is an interesting concept from Noble, isn’t it? Multi-mission weapon fits (seven on one mount!). If it works well, it would make for tremendous flexibility in firepower. As you say, it is certainly a serious firepower uplift from a .50cal Heavy Machine Gun. I hadn’t realised it had been fitted to the Ranger.
As far as the Mini Gun is concerned, I was thinking of the type fitted to certain RN vessels but I’m not sure what they are. In the VGS, Noble seem to have developed the Chain Gun type weapon into a kind of 30mm cannon for land use. I was rather thinking of the concept some years ago in terms of the old Rarden cannon-type weapon, mounted on a light wheeled vehicle for infantry support.
As far as the multi-barrelled greande launcher is concerned, I’ve just remembered. The one used by the US Marines is the Milkor M32 MGL.
Mr.fred
I’m quite surprised that no-one has made a tacticool Sterling. Quite a number would be almost instantaneously set up like a stormtrooper gun.
Infantry Minigun – only if you volunteer to carry the ammo and batteries.
Long recoil cannon chambered for lightweight 30mm? Maybe based on a RARDEN action set up for belt feed? Possibly something to replace both .50 and 40mm GMG on weapons carriers?
Jackstaff
Mr. Fred,
I have always wondered if the Sterling wasn’t, indeed, the model for the ubiquitous blaster. Would explain a great deal about the Stormtroopers’ aim….
Jed,
So were they at least Flemings who hoisted you in without making a fuss or Walloons who couldn’t resist a chance to wind up les rosbifs?
James,
Yes. SLR ought to be sorely missed. And just to fuel your feelings towards the world’s Kevins, blame for the Borg-like 5.56mm takeover can be laid squarely at the feet of the USAF (well, and Colt Firearms smelling a quick billion buying Armalite specs and selling on to the U.S. Army. Interestingly the sandbox wars have revived the M-14 it replaced as a “designated marksman’s rifle,” ie a weapon for blokes who can shoot straight and kill people with it.) SLRs are right up there with the Webbley-Foster in my book for relentlessly effective khaki firearms. Had a friend whose granddad still had his, and remember one day as he demonstrated the hinged magazine and snapped it shut like a much younger man, thinking that you could kneecap God with one of those….
x
@ Jackstaff
In most places around the world where are you going to be able to see a target long enough at over 300 meters/yards to put him down?
Saying that I posted a link to the MoD’s SA80 webpage for FBOT and it did make smile where it said effective range 400m.
By the way, Star Wars Stormtroopers blasters are SMG’s ! They are surplus SMG’s with the stock folded !!
Jackstaff
Jed,
Understood
Ref: blasters. *smacks forehead* well there you are then. The entire global scifi community just needed to shamble over to ARRSE years ago and have it explained thus. Wonder if the Galactic Empire could still sue Lanchester and Patchett’s heirs….
Jackstaff
Jed again,
What the hell’d you done wrong to have a Clansman on your back in a Gemini? (Anyway I didn’t know MCMVs made port visits to Inverness, the Jocks get lonely up there and the sheeps’ overland speed must be improving
andyw
Han Solo’s blaster was a Mauser.
I suddenly feel old AND geeky.
James
Jackstaff,
two “dits” as I am in naval company:
1. My step-grandfather obtained – and kept, unofficially – a Webley revolver from his time in the Wavy Navy in WW2. He commanded an MTB, which my mother thinks was called HMS Daffodil. Anyway, by 1949, there was a new law and a police amnesty to hand in firearms. She was told to take his Webley from their house to Kensington police station, which she did, aged 10. Had to reach up to the counter to hand it in.
2. SMGs were routine issue to recce Regiments in the 80s/90s. I was sitting in the back of a Sultan command vehicle in the middle of the Saudi desert, about a month prior to GW1 kicking off. A trooper arrived with a sack of mail, the sack having 4 D-rings for tying the neck together. Hefted over his shoulder as it was full and heavy. He also had his SMG over his shoulder. He offloaded the sack of mail, and in doing so one of the D-rings snagged the cocking handle, and all of a sudden his SMG was on full auto spraying about. None of us could immediately see it was his weapon firing, so 20 or so rounds sprayed about. Luckily, no one hit.
Yes it was. And that feeling? Welcome to my many-coloured days ….
James,
Dit 1: Brilliant. And I will go grab one of my disturbing number of reference books on Old Naval Thingummies and have a quick look for your recollection. Good on your mother for being law-abiding. (Better than some of the folk we knew I suppose; in his youth my old dad and his best friend were taught, by a bloke who’d fought in Burma, how to build a home mortar out of a bit of pipe and fixings to launch fireworks using an improvised Molotov packing to generate explosive energy (not unlike what Harry Andrews does as an old priest in “55 Days at Peking”.) That sort of thing makes Bonfire Night a bit more interesting ….
Dit 2: Hell’s bells. Yet again good reason to shed the damn things.
Jed,
*sighs and shakes head*. You’re completely right about the “ACOG looking” though ….
jackstaff
Jed again,
At least the Imperial Gunner Corps has the best regimental march in the business. Who’s the colonel-in-chief, Norman Tebbit?
jackstaff
Jed once more for old time’s sake,
Just googled that link you offered for the blaster. Ye gods. Off to use antibacterial soap now …. (But, hey, if the most comically inept military in movie mythology — “Stormtroopers vs. Orcs, go! No, ‘s not worth the flutter …” — can recruit that well, maybe the Scottish regiments *do* need to be concerned ….)
Jed
Oooh Jackstaff, swinging the lantern on a friday afternoon now…
When in TA Psyops, on major bi-annual ARRC exercise in a very snowbound norther Germany, we had all our AV kit set up in one of the tents, laptop connected to LCD projector etc – movie night !
So we are watching the second Lord of the Rings – the bit where the Orc’s attack Helms Deep, and that Orc finds the drainage culvert and puts a big “IED” in it – boooom…..
So the Elves line up, and fire only about 2 or 3 arrows (rounds ?) before dropping bows and drawing swords, so I make some innocent comment along the lines of “well you would use up all your frakkin arrows first before closing in with em !”
To which one of our ‘guests’ (Int. Corps Major) replies “blimey Jed, where’d you learn that ? Elven School of Infantry ?”
So of course for the next two weeks, at every friggin briefing / meeting / Psyops product demonstration it would be:
* Jed, what would the Elves do in this situation ?
* Jed, can you tell us what the Elven doctrine for that is ?
* Jed, what do they teach for that at the Elven School of Infantry ?
etc etc frakkin hilarious bastards…..
Last day before endex, I am with my Captain and we are playing a “radio informercial” type Psyops product to the “man” – Commander, Allied Rapid Reaction Corps – a U.S. General – who has some errudite critical apparaisal (!) of the overall production values, including in one part “a little too much crying and wailing” to which my Capt. responds that military people aren’t really the target audience – so of course 2 star general turns to me and says “So, – what do you think Elven Psyops would do ?”
Seriously…. 2 frikkin star general….. Oy vay…..
(and yes I realize I have set myself up for every future comment thread)
And yes, I would truly love to see passing out classes goose stepping round the parade ground to the strains of John Williams Imperial March – someone must have done it some time, but did they upload it to YouTube…..
Jed
Holy shit, the band of the guards playing Imperial March at Buck-house
That is certainly my mother’s recollection, but having had a quick Google it seems that MTBs had numbers not names, and that HMS Daffodil was a proper boat and not an MTB. Was there such a thing as a “Daffodil Class” of MTB?
Anyway, he commanded an MTB, not a big ship. Channel-based, and his whole flotilla were Wavy Navy officers, probably not trusted with being aboard proper big boats in the Andrew.
He ended up as a big wig in the BBC, and used to sail in his own sailing boat once a year to somewhere close to Guernsey on the anniversary to pour a bottle of champagne into the Channel in memoriam for friends who did not see VE Day. Must have been something special about that place, but sadly my grandmother had moved onto husband number 3 by then and my mother does not recall any special event.
James
Jed,
as with all of us, I can remember with nearly complete clarity the events of 9/11. In my case, I’d just finished a 1.5 day conference at the RA Barracks in Woolwich talking about WATCHKEEPER and was driving back to HQ LAND along the M25 when the news started coming in, about 2 pm I think. Everyone on the motorway was driving slower and slower as it all sank in. Got back to HQ LAND and straight into a conference on what the f*** was happening – there were even wild reports of several dozen aircraft mid-Atlantic not reporting on the radio.
Despite everything that has gone on in the last 11 years, and the politics, I do recall the palpable sense of shock, and also solidarity with the Septics. For my generation, it was probably our “Kennedy moment”.
Jackstaff
Jed two posts above,
“Jackstaff ooo, swinging the lantern on a Friday afternoon…”
Made my chuffing day with that, mate. And yes; the Uruk-Hai were nails, a proper class of Big Bad, IEDs and all. You’d think some of those immortal Elves wouldve gone to flipping staff courses or remembered fire-by-rank at Mt. Doom back in the olden days. Yes I realise TD is going to bar us both now, must mention containers quick….
jackstaff
James,
And this is yet another reason for you to write your memoirs; as I can list editor among my past careers I recommend something on the lines of “My Ride: A Cavalryman’s Life In and Out of Red Trousers” (P.S. I did find HMS Daffodil as well, after a quick chase through my Jane’s 1945 edition, the old Naval Lists, and Google. There’s a nice French website about the dive site where she was sunk. Yes, MTBs were numbered, and generally classed in similar numeric fashion, particularly the famous Vosper ones.)
Jed,
Should’ve told your 2* Elven Psyops would have Cate Blanchett stare into that Yank’s brain pan until he sh*t himself….
jackstaff
James,
Yes also — it was our “Kennedy moment” and welded my various transatlantic relations/connections together like structural steel that even the village idiot from Crawford, TX and his excellent adventure on the Euphrates has failed to sunder.
Just remembered, did any of us have a bet on the F35 decision going back to B
I know I still have a fiver on Rafale
Jackstaff
Boss,
I think Ladbroke’s will keep that fiver on file until the FY2014 Pentagon budget is inked. Can I have a punt on a sidebet for Dave-C, the most successful variant in tests, being shitcanned now because there are no standing exports, program cuts help avoid sequestration, and Boeing and the USN got married at a registry office last week?
James
Jackstaff,
I don’t think I have time to write any memoirs, nor that anyone would read them, nor actually would I want to, because it would seem like being dead, or at least giving up on life and looking back.
I’d also have some difficulty with the moral parts. I am blessed with a son and daughter who grow into their teens and all that means – I tried to have the “birds and bees” talk with my daughter but the school curriculum and society generally were years in advance of me. I find myself in the curious position of being implacably hostile to any male friend of my daughter, hugely suspicious and ready at a moment of notice to fire up the old cricket bat. She also comes running to me whenever she’s got an issue, burying her head in my chest, which is guaranteed to put me on her side. Her mother says it’s a female trick, but I don’t care. On the other hand, my own boy I find encouraging to watch as his girl friends swoon (he’s a looker for a boy, going to break many more hearts than I ever did, but he lacks the killer instinct). Both of them are brilliant over fences though, not a trace of fear and indeed scornful of danger, just as it should be. I’ve banned both from fences higher than a farm gate because they’ll kill themselves out of pride before riding around, and their ponies aren’t that big or that brave.
jackstaff
@ James,
Not curious at all — try having four of them I don’t worry overly, I suppose, because if ever there were trouble worth worrying about numbers one and three would be arguing over how to hide the body by the time I got wind. Their self-assurance is certainly the best thing I’ve ever had to do with. It is indeed a female trick you describe and I don’t give a damn either. It’s one of which I’m rather fond. Riders should always be braver than their mounts — there’s a metaphor for children and their parents in there somewhere. And in about fifteen years, maybe a little less if you get on really well, they’ll tell you about the fences they’ve been jumping without telling you.
John Hartley
I rarely get to shoot full auto, but I have never had a Sterling SMG jam on me. M4s, .45 Thompsons, Uzis have had stoppages while I was shooting, but never a Sterling. I know the thing is unbalanced, but its reliable & the magazines are easy to load with those twin rollers.
Nick
@John Hartley l You must have been v lucky with your SMGs – my personal weapon for almost all my 25 year TA Career. With one exception the SMGs issued were worn and knackered. By the 1980′s on any range day one or other weapon would double tap because the sears were worn. Misfeeds were common and as for when the MoD bought the Indian 9 mm ammunition!!.
The one exception were the weapons draw for Ex Lionheart from mobilisation stores in heavy preservation. Once the grease had been cleaned these were much more reliable on the ranges. So maybe come the real thing we would have had a gat that worked.
Fair enough for a weapon procured in the 1950′s and kept on till the mid nineties.
Will the rifle 5.56 go the same way, kept until what as a reliable (after the upgrade) and accurate weapon becomes a worn out piece of junk.
As for the SLR it had a few bad points but it was accurate, robust and felt like a weapon that could damage the enemy. First SA80 I saw, I took to be a plastic dummy for practice. But then I was an old fart too old to learn new tricks the way I knew the old ones.
@TD Go on add an LMG L4A1 to make our day, I have just found your blog and find it thought provoking.
Found an HMS Daffodil in Conway’s All the World’s Fighting Ships, 1922-1946. Indicates it was an LSS, Landing Ship, stern chute. 2678 tons gross, built in 1917, speed 11.5, carried 13 LCM(1)s or 9 LCM(3)s and 50 MT vehicles of 7.5 tons and 105 troops. Converted from former train ferry. Sunk by mine 18 March 1945.
x
Some YouTube footage of a replica De Lisle Silent Commando,
Picture 1 = De Lise carbine. Very nice, combined Lee Enfield action with .45 ACP ammo. Action was noisier than firing! Good range for a silenced weapon too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Lisle_carbine
Picture 2 = Multi-barrel grenade launcher. I can’t help thinking these are going to be a very important infantry weapon in the future; allows a serious ammount of firepower at the section level with many different types of ammo AND is very useful for police/peace-keeping roles with less lethal rounds. Add in some hi-tech and you could have a (relatively) cheap XM-25 type weapon…
Gareth, its an ARWEN, 37mm for ‘riotous assembly’work, I don’t think they ever developed anything lethal for it, that being the point of 37mm, your couldn’t fit a 40mm round into it
The SLR was my favoured weapon of all those I was issued with. I never really believed the hype about 5.56 taking 3 off the battlefield (1 wounded plus 2 medics) instead of leaving one dead on it, and I read somewhere recently that many armies are going off 5.56 and back to heavier calibres.
Until recently there was an American company selling Sterling kits.
Imagine the access some US states have to firearms and there was a company thought it worthwhile to produce a Sterling clone. Wow. The mind boggles.
@ TD – I thought it was; just taking the opportunity to play fantasy weapons… ;p
Talking of which, does anybody else see a Vickers MMG on a tripod and start thinking about possible roles for mini-guns on the modern battlefield? Just me….?
@Gareth Jones
Gareth, of course TD is right, as he invariably is. However, you are also right in that the ARWEN has a multi-barrelled version, as well as a single-shot one (ARWEN ACE). It fires unique 37 mm ammunition, normally plastic baton rounds wich can incapacitate up to approx. 100m. There are also special rounds for riots etc., including CS gas ones and ones which cut through doors before spraying CS gas. I think the ARWEN is still in service with special forces.
The real reason I am writing in is to say that I am sure you are right about multi-barrelled grenade launchers having an important future as infantry weapons. I think the US Marines aleady have a 40mm weapon of this kind in service – South African origin, I think, but the name escapes me. Like you, I had also wondered why there is not an infantry version of the Mini Gun. I have thought the same thing about a light vehicle mounted version of the 30mm cannon but I am probably also playing fantasy games.
Mike
Is this the one you mean
http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2010/05/want-that-one/
or even this one
http://defensetech.org/2012/04/18/video-the-apaches-chain-gun-goes-naval/
Our skipper on the Bicester tipped our boarding party Gemini over by sticking some wheel on while we were on the boat rope – had to be rescued by the Belgian sweeper we were about to board – point being as my “assault troop lifejacket” did not self inflate as its supposed to, I quickly divested myself of my SMG ! Bastards tried to charge me for it though !
Lookily had enough air in my foulies to keep me afloat despite the Clansman 344 strapped to my back……
TD
Thnks very much for the videos, TD. It is an interesting concept from Noble, isn’t it? Multi-mission weapon fits (seven on one mount!). If it works well, it would make for tremendous flexibility in firepower. As you say, it is certainly a serious firepower uplift from a .50cal Heavy Machine Gun. I hadn’t realised it had been fitted to the Ranger.
As far as the Mini Gun is concerned, I was thinking of the type fitted to certain RN vessels but I’m not sure what they are. In the VGS, Noble seem to have developed the Chain Gun type weapon into a kind of 30mm cannon for land use. I was rather thinking of the concept some years ago in terms of the old Rarden cannon-type weapon, mounted on a light wheeled vehicle for infantry support.
As far as the multi-barrelled greande launcher is concerned, I’ve just remembered. The one used by the US Marines is the Milkor M32 MGL.
I’m quite surprised that no-one has made a tacticool Sterling. Quite a number would be almost instantaneously set up like a stormtrooper gun.
Infantry Minigun – only if you volunteer to carry the ammo and batteries.
Long recoil cannon chambered for lightweight 30mm? Maybe based on a RARDEN action set up for belt feed? Possibly something to replace both .50 and 40mm GMG on weapons carriers?
Mr. Fred,
I have always wondered if the Sterling wasn’t, indeed, the model for the ubiquitous blaster. Would explain a great deal about the Stormtroopers’ aim….
Jed,
So were they at least Flemings who hoisted you in without making a fuss or Walloons who couldn’t resist a chance to wind up les rosbifs?
James,
Yes. SLR ought to be sorely missed. And just to fuel your feelings towards the world’s Kevins, blame for the Borg-like 5.56mm takeover can be laid squarely at the feet of the USAF (well, and Colt Firearms smelling a quick billion buying Armalite specs and selling on to the U.S. Army. Interestingly the sandbox wars have revived the M-14 it replaced as a “designated marksman’s rifle,” ie a weapon for blokes who can shoot straight and kill people with it.) SLRs are right up there with the Webbley-Foster in my book for relentlessly effective khaki firearms. Had a friend whose granddad still had his, and remember one day as he demonstrated the hinged magazine and snapped it shut like a much younger man, thinking that you could kneecap God with one of those….
@ Jackstaff
In most places around the world where are you going to be able to see a target long enough at over 300 meters/yards to put him down?
Saying that I posted a link to the MoD’s SA80 webpage for FBOT and it did make smile where it said effective range 400m.
Some videos for your amusement,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XGPfvQyKxo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwMmhSWRu3Q&feature=relmfu
Jackstaff
No idea – too cold and wet to worry about it
By the way, Star Wars Stormtroopers blasters are SMG’s ! They are surplus SMG’s with the stock folded !!
Jed,
Understood
Ref: blasters. *smacks forehead* well there you are then. The entire global scifi community just needed to shamble over to ARRSE years ago and have it explained thus. Wonder if the Galactic Empire could still sue Lanchester and Patchett’s heirs….
Jed again,
What the hell’d you done wrong to have a Clansman on your back in a Gemini? (Anyway I didn’t know MCMVs made port visits to Inverness, the Jocks get lonely up there and the sheeps’ overland speed must be improving
Han Solo’s blaster was a Mauser.
I suddenly feel old AND geeky.
Jackstaff,
two “dits” as I am in naval company:
1. My step-grandfather obtained – and kept, unofficially – a Webley revolver from his time in the Wavy Navy in WW2. He commanded an MTB, which my mother thinks was called HMS Daffodil. Anyway, by 1949, there was a new law and a police amnesty to hand in firearms. She was told to take his Webley from their house to Kensington police station, which she did, aged 10. Had to reach up to the counter to hand it in.
2. SMGs were routine issue to recce Regiments in the 80s/90s. I was sitting in the back of a Sultan command vehicle in the middle of the Saudi desert, about a month prior to GW1 kicking off. A trooper arrived with a sack of mail, the sack having 4 D-rings for tying the neck together. Hefted over his shoulder as it was full and heavy. He also had his SMG over his shoulder. He offloaded the sack of mail, and in doing so one of the D-rings snagged the cocking handle, and all of a sudden his SMG was on full auto spraying about. None of us could immediately see it was his weapon firing, so 20 or so rounds sprayed about. Luckily, no one hit.
James, I think a young Sapper was killed in 1991 when a similar thing happened with a bit of webbing and an SMG
On a lighter note, sure I saw something online a while ago about a Sterling based LMG, will have to dig it out
For SMG dits and Jackstaff
http://imperialgunnercorps.netfirms.com/CRL/official/E11big.jpg
Imperial Blaster = SMG and ACOG (well something vaguely ACOG looking)
andyw,
Yes it was. And that feeling? Welcome to my many-coloured days ….
James,
Dit 1: Brilliant. And I will go grab one of my disturbing number of reference books on Old Naval Thingummies and have a quick look for your recollection. Good on your mother for being law-abiding. (Better than some of the folk we knew I suppose; in his youth my old dad and his best friend were taught, by a bloke who’d fought in Burma, how to build a home mortar out of a bit of pipe and fixings to launch fireworks using an improvised Molotov packing to generate explosive energy (not unlike what Harry Andrews does as an old priest in “55 Days at Peking”.) That sort of thing makes Bonfire Night a bit more interesting ….
Dit 2: Hell’s bells. Yet again good reason to shed the damn things.
Jed,
*sighs and shakes head*. You’re completely right about the “ACOG looking” though ….
Jed again,
At least the Imperial Gunner Corps has the best regimental march in the business. Who’s the colonel-in-chief, Norman Tebbit?
Jed once more for old time’s sake,
Just googled that link you offered for the blaster. Ye gods. Off to use antibacterial soap now …. (But, hey, if the most comically inept military in movie mythology — “Stormtroopers vs. Orcs, go! No, ‘s not worth the flutter …” — can recruit that well, maybe the Scottish regiments *do* need to be concerned ….)
Oooh Jackstaff, swinging the lantern on a friday afternoon now…
When in TA Psyops, on major bi-annual ARRC exercise in a very snowbound norther Germany, we had all our AV kit set up in one of the tents, laptop connected to LCD projector etc – movie night !
So we are watching the second Lord of the Rings – the bit where the Orc’s attack Helms Deep, and that Orc finds the drainage culvert and puts a big “IED” in it – boooom…..
So the Elves line up, and fire only about 2 or 3 arrows (rounds ?) before dropping bows and drawing swords, so I make some innocent comment along the lines of “well you would use up all your frakkin arrows first before closing in with em !”
To which one of our ‘guests’ (Int. Corps Major) replies “blimey Jed, where’d you learn that ? Elven School of Infantry ?”
So of course for the next two weeks, at every friggin briefing / meeting / Psyops product demonstration it would be:
* Jed, what would the Elves do in this situation ?
* Jed, can you tell us what the Elven doctrine for that is ?
* Jed, what do they teach for that at the Elven School of Infantry ?
etc etc frakkin hilarious bastards…..
Last day before endex, I am with my Captain and we are playing a “radio informercial” type Psyops product to the “man” – Commander, Allied Rapid Reaction Corps – a U.S. General – who has some errudite critical apparaisal (!) of the overall production values, including in one part “a little too much crying and wailing” to which my Capt. responds that military people aren’t really the target audience – so of course 2 star general turns to me and says “So, – what do you think Elven Psyops would do ?”
Seriously…. 2 frikkin star general….. Oy vay…..
(and yes I realize I have set myself up for every future comment thread)
And yes, I would truly love to see passing out classes goose stepping round the parade ground to the strains of John Williams Imperial March – someone must have done it some time, but did they upload it to YouTube…..
Holy shit, the band of the guards playing Imperial March at Buck-house
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=artOXVZxECA
Jackstaff, re HMS Daffodil, an MTB.
That is certainly my mother’s recollection, but having had a quick Google it seems that MTBs had numbers not names, and that HMS Daffodil was a proper boat and not an MTB. Was there such a thing as a “Daffodil Class” of MTB?
Anyway, he commanded an MTB, not a big ship. Channel-based, and his whole flotilla were Wavy Navy officers, probably not trusted with being aboard proper big boats in the Andrew.
He ended up as a big wig in the BBC, and used to sail in his own sailing boat once a year to somewhere close to Guernsey on the anniversary to pour a bottle of champagne into the Channel in memoriam for friends who did not see VE Day. Must have been something special about that place, but sadly my grandmother had moved onto husband number 3 by then and my mother does not recall any special event.
Jed,
as with all of us, I can remember with nearly complete clarity the events of 9/11. In my case, I’d just finished a 1.5 day conference at the RA Barracks in Woolwich talking about WATCHKEEPER and was driving back to HQ LAND along the M25 when the news started coming in, about 2 pm I think. Everyone on the motorway was driving slower and slower as it all sank in. Got back to HQ LAND and straight into a conference on what the f*** was happening – there were even wild reports of several dozen aircraft mid-Atlantic not reporting on the radio.
Anyway, following day, this happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwrX-LN9-L0
Despite everything that has gone on in the last 11 years, and the politics, I do recall the palpable sense of shock, and also solidarity with the Septics. For my generation, it was probably our “Kennedy moment”.
Jed two posts above,
“Jackstaff ooo, swinging the lantern on a Friday afternoon…”
James,
And this is yet another reason for you to write your memoirs; as I can list editor among my past careers I recommend something on the lines of “My Ride: A Cavalryman’s Life In and Out of Red Trousers”
(P.S. I did find HMS Daffodil as well, after a quick chase through my Jane’s 1945 edition, the old Naval Lists, and Google. There’s a nice French website about the dive site where she was sunk. Yes, MTBs were numbered, and generally classed in similar numeric fashion, particularly the famous Vosper ones.)
Jed,
Should’ve told your 2* Elven Psyops would have Cate Blanchett stare into that Yank’s brain pan until he sh*t himself….
James,
Yes also — it was our “Kennedy moment” and welded my various transatlantic relations/connections together like structural steel that even the village idiot from Crawford, TX and his excellent adventure on the Euphrates has failed to sunder.
Just remembered, did any of us have a bet on the F35 decision going back to B
I know I still have a fiver on Rafale
Boss,
I think Ladbroke’s will keep that fiver on file until the FY2014 Pentagon budget is inked. Can I have a punt on a sidebet for Dave-C, the most successful variant in tests, being shitcanned now because there are no standing exports, program cuts help avoid sequestration, and Boeing and the USN got married at a registry office last week?
Jackstaff,
I don’t think I have time to write any memoirs, nor that anyone would read them, nor actually would I want to, because it would seem like being dead, or at least giving up on life and looking back.
I’d also have some difficulty with the moral parts. I am blessed with a son and daughter who grow into their teens and all that means – I tried to have the “birds and bees” talk with my daughter but the school curriculum and society generally were years in advance of me. I find myself in the curious position of being implacably hostile to any male friend of my daughter, hugely suspicious and ready at a moment of notice to fire up the old cricket bat. She also comes running to me whenever she’s got an issue, burying her head in my chest, which is guaranteed to put me on her side. Her mother says it’s a female trick, but I don’t care. On the other hand, my own boy I find encouraging to watch as his girl friends swoon (he’s a looker for a boy, going to break many more hearts than I ever did, but he lacks the killer instinct). Both of them are brilliant over fences though, not a trace of fear and indeed scornful of danger, just as it should be. I’ve banned both from fences higher than a farm gate because they’ll kill themselves out of pride before riding around, and their ponies aren’t that big or that brave.
@ James,
Not curious at all — try having four of them
I don’t worry overly, I suppose, because if ever there were trouble worth worrying about numbers one and three would be arguing over how to hide the body by the time I got wind. Their self-assurance is certainly the best thing I’ve ever had to do with. It is indeed a female trick you describe and I don’t give a damn either. It’s one of which I’m rather fond. Riders should always be braver than their mounts — there’s a metaphor for children and their parents in there somewhere. And in about fifteen years, maybe a little less if you get on really well, they’ll tell you about the fences they’ve been jumping without telling you.
I rarely get to shoot full auto, but I have never had a Sterling SMG jam on me. M4s, .45 Thompsons, Uzis have had stoppages while I was shooting, but never a Sterling. I know the thing is unbalanced, but its reliable & the magazines are easy to load with those twin rollers.
@John Hartley l You must have been v lucky with your SMGs – my personal weapon for almost all my 25 year TA Career. With one exception the SMGs issued were worn and knackered. By the 1980′s on any range day one or other weapon would double tap because the sears were worn. Misfeeds were common and as for when the MoD bought the Indian 9 mm ammunition!!.
The one exception were the weapons draw for Ex Lionheart from mobilisation stores in heavy preservation. Once the grease had been cleaned these were much more reliable on the ranges. So maybe come the real thing we would have had a gat that worked.
Fair enough for a weapon procured in the 1950′s and kept on till the mid nineties.
Will the rifle 5.56 go the same way, kept until what as a reliable (after the upgrade) and accurate weapon becomes a worn out piece of junk.
As for the SLR it had a few bad points but it was accurate, robust and felt like a weapon that could damage the enemy. First SA80 I saw, I took to be a plastic dummy for practice. But then I was an old fart too old to learn new tricks the way I knew the old ones.
@TD Go on add an LMG L4A1 to make our day, I have just found your blog and find it thought provoking.
Nick, welcome to TD
Found an HMS Daffodil in Conway’s All the World’s Fighting Ships, 1922-1946. Indicates it was an LSS, Landing Ship, stern chute. 2678 tons gross, built in 1917, speed 11.5, carried 13 LCM(1)s or 9 LCM(3)s and 50 MT vehicles of 7.5 tons and 105 troops. Converted from former train ferry. Sunk by mine 18 March 1945.
Some YouTube footage of a replica De Lisle Silent Commando,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3NJojH4r9c&feature=relmfu
They are speaking American in the film, so don’t panic your hearing hasn’t gone off.