OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

To start with, how about a moody picture of aType 23, HMS Westminster, to set the scene

7247932114 1603554b4f OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

Then ask yourself if this is a proper use of probably the world’s most effective anti-submarine frigate and definitely the world’s most effective anti submarine helicopter.

4669535348 dbfabd7868 OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

4967630523 cc0a6d1d16 OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

7248275514 d1d49e6d6a OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

Hold that thought!

As with many future programmes, there is a steady drip drip of information, snippets here and there but not really a great deal of solid information. This should be expected, the project is pre main gate and the final design will not be known for some time. I do have a sneaky suspicion that the information is deliberately released in small tantalising pieces to sustain the online ‘marketing buzz’ rather than to inform any serious debate and have long since stopped commenting on every new blurry video or vague interview, will leave that for others.

Discussion on the previous F35 post veered off into Type 26 territory and whilst in general, I quite like thread creep; it seems about right to do a post on the Type 26.

Start from the Beginning

The beginning of the conversation should start with a look at future risks, tasks and high level means of meeting those tasks and addressing those risks.

The Royal Navy has a requirement for major surface combatants in order to contribute to the national security requirement. Now of course, we might have a discussion about what the armed forces as a whole need to do, how they can address UK strategic objectives and indeed, what those strategic objectives are but that is for another discussion.

Are those strategic needs best met by a cross Saudi Arabia gas pipeline, shale gas exploitation in Blackpool or sending a powerful RN task force to the Gulf of whatever it is called these days are interesting conversations, but for the purpose of this post, lets simply assume that we need a broad set of military capabilities and that includes fighty ships.

We have the Type 45 Destroyers which primarily address the area air defence requirement and the Type 23 might be reasonably characterised as being focussed on addresses the threat from under the water and on it.

Many acknowledge that the Type 23 (and not forgetting her crew) is the most potent ASW system anywhere in the world so why change a winning mix?

One thing I do find rather frustrating in these discussions is how one sided they can become, many proponents of a ‘stronger navy’ are quick to relegate the Challenger tank to the TA and slash their number despite them being of continued and demonstrable utility in recent operations, or condemning the Tornado as being a Cold War anachronism despite it being used in every conflict to great effect since the end of the Cold War yet holding the Royal Navy at their pre-eminent Cold War position in the world of anti-submarine warfare is taken as a given.

One might suggest that given the Royal Navy has not faced a credible submarine threat (the Santa Fe doesn’t count) for many decades is an indication about the utility of such capabilities. We have devoted vast sums on the anti-submarine mission but if ones asks if continuing to do so is wise, they look at you as if you have just farted in the presence of Her Majesty whilst malleting a baby seal cub.

[Edit: Jonesy (in comments) made a good point about the Argentine Navy San Luis submarine being a credible threat, fair one, as they say]

We must therefore ask with the same level of rigour that they direct at Tornados and Challengers of the Type 23 and ultimately, the Type 26.

What threat would a Type 26 act against?

On this subject I think we need to think not so much about threats today but potential threats over the next twenty to thirty years. We all understand how a small number of Royal Navy submarines effectively neutered the entire Argentine surface fleet in 1982, submarines have a hugely disproportionate effect, in short, are the most effective sea denial weapon in existence.

Given our defence posture is generally of an expeditionary nature, or fighting in other people’s back yards so we don’t have to do so in our own, we need to consider access denial, or enemy forces stopping us going to where we want to.

Mines, submarines and anti-ship missiles launched from land or the near shore are the most effective means of denying access. We already have an effective MCM capability and to counter anti-ship missiles we have a range of offensive and defensive options so submarines should be considered equally.

One thing is certain, the technology of submarines, especially propulsion, is advancing rapidly and this advancing technology is proliferating equally as rapidly so the threat is both real today and increasingly real tomorrow.

Modern SSK’s have extremely low thermal, magnetic and acoustic signatures, using fuel cells and high capacity batteries reduces vibration to almost zero, slow speed propellers that turn at less than 20 revolutions per minute, small size, extremely precise manoeuvrability that allows them to exploit sea bottom topography and even shipwrecks to hide amongst and hull shaping and coatings to reduce sonar returns makes them one of the most difficult threats to counter.

I am not actually sure of the threat of modern submarines and the impact of modern technology is truly appreciated by many.

So if the submarine is a serious threat, and it is, then we need to be serious about countering it.

A secondary, but not by much, role for the Type 26 is surface/land attack and in some missions will be its primary role and might be fulfilled in a hostile environment.

Design Philosophy

Quite simply, the Type 23 Frigates are approaching the end of their planned service life but could we extend their life would be my first question.

We see life extension programmes across many defence equipments and we are poorer than a church mouse who has just taken out a payday loan.

We also have many other pulls on the finite defence Pound.

If this is not feasible then fair enough, there may be many engineering, stability, spares availability and operating cost reasons why it makes sense to procure new ships with the latest components and automation systems that reduce manning

We have of course contracted with BAE to carry out the initial design studies for Type 26 so this question of extended the Type 23’s seems moot, but hey, why not?

With the caveat that we don’t actually know what the final design will look like, there are many that accuse the Type 26 of pouring old wine into new bottles, very little innovation and no imagination

Given that we are migrating most of the combat relevant systems from the Type 23, the Type 26 will not be a step change in operating capabilities like the Type 45 was compared to the Type 42, it is an opinion that is easy to find sympathy with.

My opinion on this, as you might anticipate, is that taking this low risk approach makes a lot of sense.

If the MoD is to regain financial credibility and start delivering on what it promises, reducing risk and adopting an evolutionary rather than revolutionary approach seems wholly sensible and if the new wine bottle has growth room and low maintenance costs even better.

The second question would be what can be reused from the Type 45 and CVF design and build process.

The idea of a Batch 2 Type 45 sans Sea Viper does have some appeal, maximising commonality and reducing design and operating costs across the RN surface fleet as a whole but I think the time to grasp this opportunity has passed and many make the point that the design of the Type 45 is sub optimal for the ASW mission, so much so that cost and commonality benefits would be outweighed by operational compromise.

Seems reasonable

An ASW optimised Type 45 Batch 2 might actually end up being a new design anyway so we should concentrate on optimising the Type 26 for the mission, not shoehorning that mission into an unsuitable design. We could still take advantage of many of the sub systems in Type 45 and I would expect this to be the norm in any case. If, for example, accommodation or internal communications systems are not common between the two designs then we should be asking why bloody not.

Many benefits accrue from this type of sub system commonality; even having the same deep fat fryers (chips, for the use of) saves money across the fleet maintenance budget.

The final issue to address before we get to the slide rule is to ask that eternally unanswerable question, multi role or specialised?

Although by definition, all modern warships are multi role it has been Royal Navy practice to flex designs towards specialism.

One argument says that in an age of reducing hull numbers we simply cannot afford to have specialists and a single batch of multi role ‘universal escorts’ should be our goal but there is a competing argument that says the exact opposite, instead, we must leverage our technology advantages to the maximum and make each class of ship the very best they can be at their primary role, this means divergent design and specifications.

The Type 45 is a good example of the latter, at the expense of ASW and surface attack they are single mindedly focussed on AAW.

Driving the desire for multi role vessels is the simple fact that for the majority of their time, those primary roles will remain largely unused. The Type 45 might conduct any number of missions for which the Sea Viper and associated systems are totally overkill, thus creating the impression of expensive gold plating. By so called gold plating we pay the penalty in hull numbers and limitations in the ability to deliver the 90% of day to day requirements that are predicated on actually having a hull in any location.

The argument that it is easier for a Type 45 to conduct an anti-piracy mission than it is for an anti-piracy corvette to conduct an area air defence mission is well made but this assumes that we live in a land of unlimited funding.

[Edit: APATS (in comments) corrected this in so much that an anti piracy corvette cannot do the area AAW role at all, not a case of better or worse, another fair point]

It is one of those endless circular arguments but my opinion, for what it is worth, is that it is better to rely on our hard won qualitative advantages even at the expense of lower quantities. This means, in practice, that I would sacrifice quantity for quality to such a degree that it provides a smaller but high end core and enough funding for proper low end capabilities for those 90% of times when we don’t need to hunt submarines or down Mig 29’s.

A two tier fleet in other words with a wide disparity between the two, so no C1 and C2 in old money and no ASW/GP split in the latest Type 26 discussions.

When we actually need it, and one day we will, I want the ASW capabilities of the RN to be tip top, even if that means a lower quantity and accepting the operational and defence planning scale limitations that this results in.

If we look at how a Type 26 might be deployed across a range of standing and contingent commitments it should be obvious that the majority of them will be as singletons and not needing those ASW capabilities or Sea Ceptor. Using the standing tasks to define hull numbers of top end ships seems a poor justification and short sighted.

The top end vessel numbers should be based on realistic operational assumptions where those operations will actually make use of the full breadth of those very expensive capabilities, not on how many times a year we should be using them for smuggling interdiction and disaster relief.

An opposing view is that hull numbers are the most important consideration, capabilities can be sacrificed and the fitted for but not with approach to hoping for future improvements can eventually deliver both quality and quantity.

It is an equally valid approach.

One of my previous suggestions for all three services was the ‘capability plus’ model that sees a wide spectrum of high end capabilities maintained, but crucially at a scale that is appropriate for those high end capabilities and achievable, not the hum drum of day to day ‘less than war’ commitments for which they are gold plated.

It is that well-worn cliché about going to the shops in a Ferrari every day when you only go racing once a decade. I still want the ability to win that race though, but financial reality means I might have to accept trade-offs. So, a small but very hard core surrounded by selected capabilities that provide influence in coalition operations and utility in the most likely kinds of operations we tend to find ourselves in.

The Royal Navy has a unique perspective on what many call gold plating when compared with the proud owners of MEKO’s, FREMM’s etc and that is it has actually learned these lessons the hard way in recent memory, it is this that has driven the uniquely high specification of the Type 45 and should equally drive the same specification of the Type 26 because the likelihood is that the Royal Navy will likely use them in action, and the others won’t.

This may be a harsh viewpoint but still I think valid.

We should therefore have a no compromise attitude to capabilities.

In summary, a top end Type 26 design, optimised for ASW and surface attack, sacrificing numbers if needed in order to fund more numerous but lower end vessels and other capabilities. This lower end, at least for me, does not mean another Type 26 with no Sonar 2087 but a genuinely low end and cheap Ford Transit type vessel, for example, those Black Swan, Venator, SIMSS type concepts we have been discussing.

Therefore, I would like the design of the Type 26 to concentrate laser like on its…

[/BULLSHIT ALERT ON]

War fighting capabilities

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Might have to go outside and have a word with myself now.

And very definitely not how many ISO containers it can carry on its flex deck for humanitarian supplies. (did I really just say that!)

Industry

The contract for the Assessment Phase of the Type 26 was for four years at a cost of £127 million. I must admit to having some trouble with the length of time and cost for this, assuming the low ambition and high degree of reuse from the Type 23/45 but if it produces a stable design that enables production to commence at a reasonable cost then who am I to argue!

People might look at other nation’s designs like the SIGMA, MEKO or FREMM for example and wonder why we can’t just buy from them but it is the government’s industrial policy to retain onshore the ability to design and manufacture complex warships with complex weapons.

This means BAE will be designing and building the Type 26 whether anyone likes it or not and because of the advantages of onshore design and build feeding money back into the economy they might not seem as expensive as imagined.

Whether Type 26 will actually find partner nations or overseas customers in such a crowded and well provisioned market is debatable. India and Brazil have been mooted as potential partners rather than simple export customers but instead of the whole ship, I tend to think we should concentrate on the export potential for sub systems like weapons, propulsion, combat management systems, sensors and countermeasures but we will see how the export potential of Type 26 plays out.

We also have the 15 year Terms of Business Agreementwith BAE to consider, the build rate and location might dictate the overall cost, capability and quantity mix.

Systems

Once we have decided to build the ships we must look at systems and as usual, a complex mix of requirements and trade-offs will need to be considered.

Propulsion, Hull and Engineering

The ASW mission influences the hull design and means of propulsion, the ability to tow a sonar array and carry out ‘sprint and drift’ with a low acoustic signature is essential to anti-submarine warfare. Whether this will continue to be the preferred tactic or off-board meshed sensors carried on UAV’s will become the preferred option in the future might inform discussion, but in the timescales that the Type 26 design must be finalised i.e. now (or even a few months ago), those traditional concepts will still be relevant.

There are many variations on a theme when it comes to propulsion systems and modern developments provide even greater options, LNG and fuel cells anyone?

The Type 45 design required a significant investment in propulsion and power generation and we would be silly not to leverage that investment, even if the electric propulsion system of the Type 45 is not completely suitable for the Type 26. CODLOG stands for Combined Diesel Electric or Gas, the diesel is used to power an electrical generator with the turbine being used to provide increased levels of power for high speed sprinting. The propellers are then driven by electric motors, themselves powered by the diesels or gas turbines through generators.

The Intercooled and Recuperated (ICR) WR-21 is based on RB-211 and Trent technology and is designed to provide high levels of economy at part loads, in comparison with other turbines which are inefficient at anything less than full load. The cost of the WR-21’s and associated machinery was £84 million for all 6 Type 45’s. Click here for a detailed document on integration details for the WR-21, very interesting reading for people like me who don’t have a clue!

By using the Rolls Royce WR-21 turbine, the same as the Type 45, we can provision a simple extension to the recently signed 6 year £20m support contract that uses the Class Output Management approach, or contracting for availability.

The higher power (36kW instead of 25kW) Rolls Royce MT-30 turbine, based on the Trent, will be used in CVF. If we went for the MT-30 then it would equally make sense to combine the support arrangements with CVF.

Either option provides commonality benefits, very neat.

Rolls Royce are developing a more compact variant of the MT-30 and some reports indicate that this combined with 2 MTU diesels will be the preferred option for Type 26, although the final configuration remains unclear, as much of the Type 26 is.

The South African Navy’s A-200 Meko ships have an interesting propulsion concept called CODAG-WARP, this stands for Combined Diesel and Gas – Water jet And Refined Propeller. A pair of 6,000kW MTU diesel engines drive two controllable pitch propellers through a combining gearbox and should high speed be needed, a GE LM 25000 turbine kicks in and powers a waterjet style propulsor. It is quite a simple system and has a reasonable degree of resilience because any one of the diesel engines can power both props. Other configurations might see each diesel only driving one shaft and therefore eliminating the need for a complex gearbox that combines the output from the two engines, reducing complexity and cost even more. Further enhancements to the propulsor/waterjet design such as injecting compressed gas into the flow might offer significant thrust increases without additional power requirements.

Power cells, hybrid diesel/LNG and high performance batteries are rapidly maturing, driven by the need to reduce fuel consumption in large commercial ships. It might be a step to far for the Type 26 but in an all-electric integrated propulsion set up that has the ability to drive conventional fixed or variable pitch propellers, azipods, waterjets or any combination thereof using either LNG/diesel engines, gas turbines, fuel cells or even batteries makes for an interesting proposition. The noise disadvantages of azipods and waterjets might rule them out of a Type 26 design though, with a conventional pair of fixed pitch propellers offering the best solution and whether operating on batteries or zero vibration fuel cells would offer appreciable external noise reduction over any other power source is again, open for debate.

Wartisla have an interesting brochure on naval propulsion including the WARP system mentioned above, click hereto have a read and another on reducing noise here.

Many horses for many courses here but the balancing act between economy, straight out performance and acoustic signature should be skewed to combat performance in its primary ASW role.

This is not to say fuel economy is unimportant and there are many ways of reducing fuel use ranging from hull coatings to transom flaps, specifying energy efficient lighting or low power electronic equipment but these should not be allowed to compromise combat capabilities.

One factor that is inescapable is the rising cost of people so any new design should utilise the maximum level of automation to reduce the number of crew, within the bounds of maintaining sensible levels of resilience and workload. Modern systems also have reduced maintenance requirements and this should also both reduce crew numbers and maintenance cost.

Boat deck, mission deck or flex deck, take your pick. This should be a large component of the design, not I hasten to add, so we can carry humanitarian supplies or go all multi-role, but to accommodate future unmanned surface and sub-surface vessels in support of the primary mission.

Whether this is underneath the flight deck or more central on the superstructure is a detailed point but for the intended role, not sure it makes a great deal of difference either way.

One factor we should expect from a new design is that of signature reduction and/or management. One would imagine a great deal of work will have gone into this aspect of the new design.

Sensors and Systems

Having invested so much money in BAE/QinetiQ ARTISAN Type 997 3D E/F-band radar and other electro optical and ESM systems across the Type 45 and Type 23 it would seem basic common sense to fit them to the Type 26. One might argue the finer points of performance between one radar system or another but the simple fact is, those arguments are moot, click here for a datasheet.

The Thales integrated mast concept is said to provide a number of benefits and I think it would be worthy of serious consideration for the Type 26.

Sonar 2087 is a very high specification Low Frequency Active Sonar (LFAS) fitted to 8 of the Type 23’s. Although it was primarily designed for blue water operation it still has a great deal of utility on the Type 26, despite the increasing trend towards operations in shallower waters.

7247932906 f5f982d2c1 OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

Detection in shallow waters is a problem because underwater obstacles might prevent the safe deployment of long towed arrays, fresh/sea water mixes, tidal impacts on water conditions, unpredictable and variable salinity/temperature, reflections from the sea bed and underwater obstacles and even concerns about underwater wildlife may limit the use of low frequency devices. Ambient and directional noise from manmade and natural sources also confuses the overall acoustic picture.

Because of the smaller areas involved accurate sea bed surveys and sediment analysis, sometimes called Rapid Environmental Assessments can be used for ASW. This kind of technology and processes are more often used for survey and mine countermeasures but research continues at a pace and one capability may very well utilise another. We might see the kinds of USV’s now routinely used for covert survey and seabed analysis carried aboard a Type 26 in the future. Other promising research avenues include exploiting so called ‘non-cooperative’ sound sources of opportunity, other ships that just happen to be in the area for example. The returns from these can be passively received into the detection and analysis software, cunning eh.

To cover the shallow water detection requirement active dipping sonars from a Merlin helicopter and hull mounted high frequency sonars seem to be the way to go for the short term although the subject is a fiendishly complex one, real science.

In the future, these higher frequency systems may be operated from unmanned surface vessels or even helicopter type UAV’s with sensor information relayed back to the Type 26 or an airborne Merlin.

The hull mounted Type 2050 sonar on the Type 23’s has a long and complex history but the base product is now part of the Thales UMS 4110 family and utilises much of the processing and display console systems as the CAPTAS 4 or 2087.

There is also potential for small unmanned aircraft able to use thermal, radar or even engine particulate detectors to contribute to the ASW mission and I will cover these in the aviation section, later.

The same Increment F COBLU CESMsystem as installed on the Type 45 would be another desirable equipment fit and the same, or modernised, broad range of communications, electronics and data link equipment as fitted to the Type 45/23 including the recently announced UAT upgrade.

DNA(2) combat management system as fitted to the Type 23’s, yet again, seems an obvious candidate for a simple transfer as long as it can make use of modern, adapted off the shelf, computing equipment.

Most of the sensors on Type 26 will therefore be from existing programmes, either direct transfer of equipment from the Type 23’s or more of the same from other vessels.

There may be opportunities for modest incremental upgrades and a technology refresh, making greater use of modern computing systems for example, but in general, a sensible and evolutionary approach, building upon investments already made.

Countermeasures

Countermeasures are not often discussed but are advancing all the time.

There are many military off the shelf systems from Rheinmetall and Terma. The most common is the SeaGnat decoy system which uses what might be described as a mortar to fire a range of IR, Chaff and Active Decoy rounds to confuse and seduce incoming missiles.

Chemring manufacture the NATO Standard Chaff round but also produce a newer range of slightly larger rounds including IRand RFrounds. To support increasingly larger decoy payloads they have also created an oversize round that still uses the 130mm form factor called the Large Payload Carrier.

Type 23 frigates also use the BAe SIRENso again, a straight transfer might be the most appropriate solution.

Instead of using the traditional fixed tube launchers Chemring have recently developed the Centurion trainable launcher that can carry 12 130mm rounds.

The Airborne Systems IDS300 inflatable RF decoy as fitted to Type 45 Destroyers could also be fitted.

Short range protection against torpedoes could be provided by the Ultra Sonar S2170 Sea Sentor Surface Ship Torpedo Defence System that comprises an acoustic passive towed array, towed acoustic countermeasure, single-drum winch, processing cabinet, display consoles, 2 expendable acoustic device launchers and 16 expendable acoustic devices.

It is an impressive system and in already service with the Royal Navy.

Close in Weapons

Beyond the manually aimed automatic weapons a modest upgrade path might include deck mounted remotely aimed medium calibre weapons like the MSI 30mm systems currently fitted to many RN vessels.

MSI Defence has also developed the Seahawk SIGMA, a remote controlled system that mounts a 30mm ATK Bushmaster cannon and a 7 cell launcher for the Thales Lightweight Multirole Missile. It is a compact, relatively low cost mount, already in service (in its basic form without missiles) with the Royal Navy and appropriate in terms of firepower.

4907596353 34352edbf3 OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26
MSI 30mm mount with 7 LMM

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Although the effectiveness of the Phalanx CIWS has been called into question, as part of a layered air defence system, combined with countermeasures and the Sea Ceptor it should hopefully provide sufficient protection and easily transferred from the vessels going out of service. It also has an upgrade path to SeaRAM and even future directed energy weapons, using the same basic, non deck penetrating mount.

The latest video snippets on Type 26 show them mounted between the Sea Ceptor missiles and main gun and on the roof of the hangar.

If space can be found for the lightweight Stingray torpedo great, but not sure of it is necessarily a vital system given the range of other weapons available, looks good for Top Trumps though!

Anti-Air

The Type 23’s Sea Wolf missiles will start the upgrade path to Sea Ceptor before the Type 26 build process and Sea Ceptor will also be fitted to Type 26.

A number of silo arrangements are possible, using a Sea Ceptor specific design or quad packing in Sylver silos, multiple versions have appeared in the various marketing videos released so far.

Although using them in Sylver silos might make sense from a commonality perspective this would come down to a straight cost comparison, especially given that on a Type 26, the silos will likely be used exclusively for Sea Ceptor.

The simple dedicated silo arrangement might make more sense.

Surface and Land Attack

Surface and land attack should be the main secondary mission for the Type 26.

The Future Maritime Fires Concept Phase is due to complete in around mid 2012 so no doubt the lessons from Libya will play a large part in informing the study. With the cancelling of the BAe 155mm TMF project the choice of a naval gun has narrowed but there are also missile and UAV delivered systems worthy of consideration.

Question

Julian Lewis (New Forest East, Conservative)

To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what his policy is on the replacement of existing warship guns by ones of 155mm; and if he will make a statement on his policy, with special reference to (a) the future frigate fleet and (b) Type 45 destroyers.

Answer

Peter Luff (Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Defence Equipment, Support and Technology), Defence; Mid Worcestershire, Conservative)

No decision on the calibre of the new Maritime Indirect Fire System (the new naval gun) has yet been made. This will be taken when work to consider the available options under the Future Maritime Fires Concept Phase is complete in around mid-2012.

Guns

The Maritime Fires Concept, of which the Maritime Indirect Fire System (MIFS) is part, is being delivered in conjunction with the Niteworks Partnership and is expected to be met by a medium calibre gun (MCG). The other part of MFS is the Maritime Indirect Fire Precision Attack (MIFPA) is expected to be delivered using missile systems, potentially Fire Shadow.

6771790259 1e94624d9b OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

6771787579 f9960eb4c1 OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

Moving away from the 4.5” Mk8 main gun is attractive but it is not an automatic decision, with barrel wear, maintenance costs, commonality with the Type 45 and ammunition stocks for the Mk8 all be considered before looking at the inducements on offer from others.

Naval Gunfire Support has a great deal of utility and used much more often that many of the more esoteric systems, the Falklands, Iraq and Libya being recent outings; it is much cheaper than using air delivered munitions if circumstances permit and can use a graduated force model where a well aimed smoke or illumination round that signals loud and clear the next one will be of the type that goes bang can influence subsequent activity or neutralise threats both on land and at sea.

The existing 115mm/4.5” Mark 8 Mod 1 gun aboard Royal Navy vessels has its origins in the late sixties and has given excellent service but how reliable they are now apparently an open question. The HE Extended Range round uses base bleed to propel the round to a maximum range of 27.5km and the existing illumination nature is also still available. In order to maintain a sustained rate of fire of 16-20 rounds per minute and accommodate the more powerful ammunition types the barrel is 62 calibres long. It has seen extensive service including action off the Falkland Islands (8,000 rounds), Iraq and Libya.

As we know though, there is not a large installed base on which to spread development costs of precision, proximity and IR illumination or smoke natures so the open market seems an obvious place to look, especially given the 155mm TMF concept has now been cancelled.

There are a number of options but probably only two realistic ones, the BAE 5” Mark 45 and the Oto Melara 127mm Compact and Lightweight.

The Mark 45 Mod 4 from BAE, as used by the US Navy, South Korea, Denmark, Australia and others, is a 5”/127mm system with a 62 calibre barrel and is capable of a rate of fire up to 20 rounds per minute.

The Oto Melara system comes in a Compact form and the newer Lightweightversion with a 64 calibre barrel.

In 2010 Babcock and Oto Melara signed a Memorandum of Understanding to offer the Light Weight Medium Calibre Gun System to the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) for the Type 26 frigate.

To quote the sales blurb;

The Oto Melara 127/64 LW gun is capable of firing up to 35 rounds per minute. The production turret weighs less than 29 tons and the ‘peppered’ muzzle brake with an aluminium shield keeps cost down, improves maintenance and reduces radar cross-section. The gun uses an advanced ammunition handling system, consisting of four revolving drum magazines holding 56 ready-to-fire rounds of more than four different types, allowing flexibility in ammunition selection and a high rate of sustained fire. It is capable of anti-surface and anti-air defence, and area engagement. The new Vulcano ammunition is capable of precision engagement at ranges previously only achievable by missile systems but at a fraction of the cost.

Very impressive.

After many years of very expensive trials the US Extended Range Guided Munition was cancelled, leaving the USN without precision gun launched land attack round but Oto Melara have continued to persevere and have introduced the Vulcano range of munitions.

Vulcano has both an extended range unguided and long range guided nature that is used with the 127mm gun to deliver rounds out to 120km.

The Type 26 doesn’t necessarily need the precision guided ammunition straight away, it would provide a simple upgrade path and despite doubts about the explosive content of guided shells it would still offer a significant upgrade, have the potential to reduce the need (therefore cost) for air delivered precision munitions and allow the Royal Navy to take advantage of a mature user base.

Missiles

When we discuss missiles for the Type 26 many people automatically assume that it should include Tomahawk and whilst having diversity of launch platform is always ‘a good thing’ it would take up a lot of space and add significant cost as we would need to introduce the US Mk 41 vertical launch silo.

I am not sold on the idea of Tomahawk on Type 26 for that reason.

A post Libya Jane’s Defence Weekly reported on a Royal Navy lessons learned document in which the two major shortcomings were a lack of precision land attack capability and organic unmanned ISR.

It quoted Colonel Pierson RM, the Deputy Director of NATO Operations in Libya;

It was evident that the Libya campaign showed the need for precision fires, [perhaps the Lockheed Martin] Guided Multiple Rocket Launch System (GMLRS), from the sea base, deep into enemy littoral territory.

He added that there was a requirement on RN Warships for;

Unmanned intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR), such as the brilliant live feed, full motion video provided by [Boeing] Scan Eagle unmanned aerial vehicle

More on this last one later.

Complimenting a large calibre main gun could be the Harpoon missiles transferred from the Type 23’s or even a purchase of the Naval Strike Missile from Kongsberg. This will also be integrated onto the F35 so commonality benefits could be realised if we chose to purchase it for the F35’s, unlikely, but it is an option.

With a 150km range the NSM weighs 400Kg with a 125kg warhead and can attack a mix of land and surface targets. This would also have the added benefit of being integrated onto the F35 for commonality all round. The Stand Off Land Attack Missile, based on the Harpoon is another option.

Another system that is likely to be a shoe in is the Team Complex Weapons Fire Shadow that is a difficult system to characterise, half missile and half UAV it is called a loitering munition.

I tend to think that Fireshadow makes a lot more sense in a maritime environment than it does on land.

If we really want to spend a fortune the CVS401 Perseus concept missile from MBDA will also provide plenty of options, potentially replacing Storm Shadow, cue an enormous bun fight between the RAF and RN.

The latest video from BAE seems to have deleted the Harpoon missile fit from previous incarnations but if a simple empty space for future missile armament like that found on the Absalon be incorporated into the Type 26 design it would provide a simple means of improving the attack capability of the Type 26.

7247932778 04cff85800 OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

If we do end up upgrading to the 127mm gun from Oto Melara we have the potential for precision engagement out to 70km with a potential to extend that to 120km although sacrificing explosive content. The Fire Shadow again provides a measure of precision engagement out to about 150km at a low cost and the NSM to the same range but with different utility for different targets and a higher cost.

It could be argued that this is enough and integration of either the NSM or FireShadow would not present insurmountable problems because they are both compact and relatively lightweight.

I still like the concept of a maritime version of GMLRS/ATACMS as mentioned by Col Pierson RM, above, for precision fire out to 300km with a large payload but this seems a remote possibility and we wouldn’t want to be pissing on Storm Shadow/CVF/JCA’s chips now would we?

A maritime MRLS/GMLRS is not a new concept, the US Navy initiated a study into something similar called the Precision Over the horizon Land Attack Rocket (POLAR) that used the MRLS rocket as its base, although the motor was nearly a third larger. This was cancelled in favour of the Land Attack Standard Missile that was also itself, subsequently cancelled.

300km, or 160nm circles are below, just as a random illustration of range, don’t read too much into the centre of the circles, they are just examples.

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7247931866 09d8c83e00 OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

7247931574 e698bc189f OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

7247931706 cf2400537f OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

6784662229 943fea24fa OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

6784683667 02998c8893 OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

What was that about 90% of the world’s population living within 10 miles of the coast again?

A single podded launcher able to launch 70/150/300km precision land attack weapons would offer a genuine step change in capabilities and although I tend to avoid predicting development costs, it would not seem to be hugely expensive because they would be in lightweight sealed canisters, reuse completely existing rockets with only the engineering challenges of moderate stabilisation and exhaust management issues to resolve.

There may be simple design rather than engineering answers to some of these or simply accepting compromises. Instead of reloading at sea, accept that it is an alongside task, instead of expensively making everything corrosion resistant, design in semi protected components and accept a higher frequency of replacement and instead of creating a complex exhaust gas management system or replacing the propellant design the system so that it can only be fired at right angles to the axis of the ship thus facilitating exhaust management.

What is certain is that a naval GMLRS would be invaluable, potent, have some degree of commonality with land forces and be relatively low cost.

What is even more intriguing is that should we be able to integrate a GMLRS launcher aboard an RN vessel open up the possibility of using the same launcher for the 300km BROACH warhead variant, ATACMS, 1 per pod.

IMI also make the 150km EXTRA rocket that fits two to a G/MLRS pod or the 180km DELILAH.

Standing 25km offshore (with that indefinite poise thing) a ship launched ATACMS would be able to attack targets up to 275km inshore.

The pictures below (I think) are of the Chinese Navy and Romanian Navy having a dabble with the concept.

7247932434 3a54853a2e OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

7248423610 7bc5c52797 OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

If I could choose one development item for the Type 26, this would be it.

Not going to happen though, is it?

Over the horizon targeting does not necessarily have to be organic to the ship although that would be extremely useful, will cover it in the next section.

Aviation

If the design could accommodate a hangar for two Merlin’s that should be a no brainer, of course, a compromise design for a Wildcat and Merlin or a Wildcat and couple of unmanned aircraft might be equally flexible but all things being equal, the larger the hangar the better.

Helicopters and UAV’s provide the full range of utility, ISR and offensive capabilities.

Merlin HM2 will be the normal embarked helicopter but Wildcat or other types might be carried as needed.

Retaining the Type 45’s ability to accommodate a Chinook on the flight deck should be retained.

Merlin HM2 is an incredibly powerful system and perfectly suited to the ASW mission but it might be equally sensible not to carry any at all and use the space for Wildcat, retaining flexibility is the key.

Stingray lightweight torpedoes and the Lightweight Multirole Missile plus automatic weapons complete the armament for the Type 26

A few different configurations have been shown for the LMM on Wildcat, either 5 or 7 tube launchers.

6895619651 3daaa0a4a7 OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

Lightweight Multirole Missile – AW Wildcat

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Thales Lightweight Multirole Missile – Wildcat

The ability to extend the sensor reach beyond the horizon is of obvious benefit and usually this would be carried out by a frigate or destroyers helicopter but when there is a threat from surface fire, helicopters become more difficult to deploy so many solutions exists for deploying sensors (and sometimes weapons) using unmanned systems.

It is depressing to think that the Royal Navy has been so slow to unmanned party, the reasons are of course largely financial but despite testing a number of systems like the Insitu Scan Eagle several years ago nothing has been introduced into service.

One might assume that an unmanned air vehicle operating from a ship must be vertical take-off and landing, like a helicopter, but that is not necessarily the case although the emerging VTUAS requirement would seem to dictate a vertical take-off and landing solution. The initial target date seems to be around the 2020 to 2024 mark, incredible given the range of low cost off the shelf solutions available and obvious need now.

The debate seems to be whether to opt for something that is just used for ISR or a system that offers a greater payload for weapons or even stores.

Greater payload generally means shorter endurance and range so there is a balance to be struck. Whilst carriage of larger payloads may be useful, to match the endurance of the smaller ISR systems would mean multiple vehicles, increasing cost and of course, most ships are not overflowing with space and the Type 26 will be no exception

A few options from the sweet shop;

Schiebel Camcopter

Similar to Skeldar, the Camcopter S-100 from Scheibel has an hour longer endurance than Skeldar at 6 hours and can carry a range of sensor and communication payloads weighing 34kg in total. An external fuel tank can also be fitted to extend endurance to 10 hours.

It has also been shown armed with a single Lightweight Multirole Missile from Thales.

2689605748 3e3cd0dd44 OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

Camcopter and LMM

Gizmag wrote a good article last year on the Camcopter in which they describe the cost of a two air vehicle system complete with control station, payload, ground equipment, logistics package and training to be in the order of $2m.

The Camcopter is in service with the UAE, being introduced into German naval service, has been demonstrated from a French Gowind class offshore patrol vessel and Libya also ordered 4 systems in 2009, wonder where they are now!

Click here to read the brochure which includes an interesting picture of the Camcopter being used to drop leaflets.

Saab Skeldar

The Saab Skeldar V-200 is the latest version of the Skeldar rotary wing UAV in both land and maritime variants. Although having a much shorter endurance than the ScanEagle the advantages of VTOL and hover in flight are obvious.

Saab have also demonstrated the Skeldar operating from a CB90 which highlights an interesting combination of smaller patrol craft operating at distance from the host vessel and extending their ISTAR reach even further.

The maritime version has a 40kg payload, an endurance of 5 to 7 hours and uses a diesel engine, important for ship safety reasons.

The Skeldar has an interesting ISO Container system that houses the air vehicle, all maintenance equipment and spares and can be configured to have a roof mounted landing and take off platform so the whole system can be easily hosted aboard a variety of vessels and transferred just as easily.

Firescout

The Northrop Grumman MQ-8B is a mature vertical take off and landing unmanned system with a long development background and proven deployment credentials with US forces. Developed from the Schweizer 333 it is a much larger aircraft than the Camcopter or Skeldar as shown by a comparison of payloads, for short missions the Firescout can lift over 300kg. Normal endurance is between 5 and 8 hours.

One was lost over Libya though.

Its stub wings also allow the carriage of a variety of missiles such as Hellfire or guided 70mm rockets.

3061744857 39b165470d OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

MQ-8B Fire Scout

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RQ – MQ 8 FireScout

Click here for brochures.

Hummingbird

Although still a rotary winged UAV the Boeing Hummingbird is very different from the others and arguably, much more cutting edge. Its unique propulsion system allows the rotor speed to be varied and this provides advantages in altitude and endurance, where it can operate at 15,000 feet for in excess of 20 hours carrying a payload of up to 130kg.

The Hummingbird was tested with the FOliage penetrating REconnaissance, Surveillance, Tracking and Engagement Radar (FORESTER) system, click here for an in depth article, although it had a few problems in Belize

Moving beyond Gorgon Stare is the DARPA sponsored ARGUS-IS project being developed by BAe.

This ambitious programme will create a 1.8 Gigapixel camera system able to cover a 40 km2 area at 15 frames per second from an A160 Hummingbird or Reaper UAV. To process this enormous data volume it will use an airborne processing system to deliver up to 65 windows that users can zoom into or out of on demand. The software makes the difference; its advanced target recognition algorithms provide movement detection and target tracking.

Other payloads might include the ubiquitous EO sensor pod, SAR or multiples of the same.

It is ARGUS that has been in the news recently with a planned deployment to Afghanistan very soon.

If one compares the Hummingbird with the Fire Scout, the former can fly higher and longer but carry less.

Boeing Insitu Scan Eagle

The ScanEagle has an interesting history, initially introduced in 2001 to assist tuna fishing fleets it has evolved into a mature, low cost, flexible and highly effective family of vehicles and payloads. A few months ago it notched up its half million flying hours milestone.

In Libya the Scan Eagle demonstrated its capabilities and after, Insitu released a press release

“What happened over that period of time, no one expected,” says ScanEagle Detachment Officer in Charge Lt. Nick Townsend. “ScanEagle was locating contacts of interest that no one else could find. After the dust settled, ScanEagle was credited with locating a host of contacts of interest due to its ability to capture superior image quality and to operate covertly at relatively low altitudes.” Captured imagery was delivered from the ship to the task force via secure networked channels provided by the Secure Video Injection system from The Boeing Company, Insitu’s parent company. The UAV-provided, near-real-time video helped enable quick, tactical decisions.

The video below demonstrates just how compact and easy to use the launch and recovery equipment is, incidentally shot from the same USS Mahon that operated the Scan Eagle in Libya.

To reinforce just how compact the Scan Eagle launch mechanism the image below shows one being launched from US Navy Mark V Special Warfare boat.

3093287479 1afa79778f OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

Scan Eagle launch

To see the full specs, loads of video and images click here to go to the Insitu website.

ScanEagle can be upgraded to NightEagle specification only a few hours.

The Scan Eagle is a mature system and has many optional extras and a full range of sensors and supporting payloads in addition to mission planning and image analysis tools. It really is an off the shelf system.

Integrator

Scan Eagle has a bigger brother, the Integrator can carry a larger payload yet still use the same launch and recovery method. The Integrator has been selected by the USN and USMC to fulfil the Small Tactical Unmanned Aircraft System (STUAS) requirement.

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Boeing Integrator

One of the strengths of the Scan Eagle and Integrator is the modular payload bay that has had many systems already integrated; electro optical, infra red and synthetic aperture radar as imaging payloads for example. Other useful payloads include communications relays of various types and an intelligent ships AIS interrogator that matches a received AIS signal with imagery to confirm the identity of a ship.

The 24 hour endurance is certainly impressive but limited to certain sensor payloads.

Click here for a brochure.

Two payloads that will be of particular interest in the ASW role are the Magnetic Anomaly Detector (MAD) and diesel engine particulate detector.

Using these in combination with the hull and helicopter based systems would seem to cover all the bases for deep and shallow water ASW.

Gazelle and SW4

These are interesting not only because they are conversions of existing manned helicopters (like many of these rotary UAV’s) but because of their UK connection, which makes them likely contenders for any RN programme.

Northrop Grumman and QinetiQ proposed an unmanned Gazelle and described their solution as ‘short term and low cost’

The unmanned Gazelle would use the control systems of the Northrop MQ-8B Firescout which does kind of beg the question why not just buy the much more mature Firescout in the first place.

Using the Gazelle as a platform makes sense – it’s a proven system with low support and operating costs.

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Re-inventing the wheel?

Speaking at DSEi 2011, Qinetiq’s assistant technical director of avionics, Jeremy Howitt, said;

Qinetiq would be responsible for programme management and integration activities under the proposal, which would also include flight test activities from the West Wales UAV Centre at Aberporth. Unmanning an aircraft is the relatively easy part. The difficult part is providing the multiple levels of redundancy and failure management required that allows you to deliver military effect. We could do an initial demonstration within 12 months, and within the order of £10 million

12 months and ten million quid for a demonstrator, mmm

Given that Gazelle is due out of service soon and the maturity of competing systems it is hard to see the advantages of reinventing the wheel.

At around the same time Agusta Westland (now owners of the Polish helicopter manufacturer PZL-Swidnick) announced a possible conversion of their SW-4 light helicopter.

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SW-4 Unmanned, that will another directorship please!

The first unmanned flight is scheduled for ‘this year’

Both these were aiming for an endurance of 8 hours depending on the payload weight.

Growth

The Type 23 is probably at the end the growth curve so it is good to see the emerging conceptual Type 26 designs having growth provision. It is not just about empty space but ensuring power systems can accommodate extra load, using blown fibre, making sure computing systems can exploit improvements in commercial advances and many other factors.

Within the lifespan of the Type 26 we may well see the emergence of off board unmanned air, surface and sub-surface vehicles that use mesh network technology, creating an all seeing mosaic from multiple micro sensors. Merlin might be used to control a swarm of unmanned aerial vehicles, each carrying half a dozen sonobouys and an engine particulate detector.

Type 26 must be in a position to exploit these emerging technologies.

Growth potential might actually be the single most compelling argument for Type 26.

Numbers and Wider Context

This is the golden question.

Given my arguments above for a ‘hard as woodpecker lips’ central core that is only used for the full on fighty stuff I would settle for reduced numbers as long as a few things happened.

First, a fundamental re-appraisal of the RN’s standing tasks, how they are provisioned and a realisation that you can’t get two pints out of an egg cup. A reduced in number and reduced in length (for Type 26 and Type 45) deployments will equally reduce separated service times and aid retention whilst still providing opportunities for career progression and variety on other platforms. I do not want more pressure on RN personnel, I don’t find longer harmony guidelines something to brag about and when the you know what hits the fan I want RN personnel equipped with the very best and at the peak of their training efficiency, however infrequently it might happen.

Second, we really do invest in quality on a continual basis and that includes high intensity, realistic training at a scale and in groups of vessels that provides maximum benefit against the primary role, fighting and winning. This means a singleton deployment of a Type 26 on tasks such as anti-piracy, as useful as they are for defence diplomacy and training and a variety of other things, would be the exception. When a Type 26 deploys, it should generally go mob handed with other vessels and fully tooled up in the expectations that things will cut up rough. That means no anti piracy, smuggling or humanitarian assistance missions as a means of justifying numbers, these are for others nations and other RN/RFA ships.

Third, in accepting sacrifices in numbers there must be a pay-off in terms of provisioning other capabilities such as UAV’s, investment in ASW research and development and the creation of a second tier fleet of Black Swans, Venators or SIMSS, more investment in MCM and amphibious ship to shore capabilities that can do the majority of so called ‘peace time taskings’ and address capability shortfalls that seem to be continually identified in lesson learned document after lesson learned document.

Much like my thoughts on needing fewer fast jets and more ISR/SH/AT, this is in the same vein, it is not a smash and grab on ones services budget to assist another, simply a re-appraisal of how best that same budget can be used. Type 26 is not just a like for like replacement and should not be thought of thus, despite what the those crusty old Admirals and Think Tanks would have you believe, muttering about Nelsons heart and the want of frigates, we need to think a little more seriously about things these days because we don’t have the cash to do otherwise.

Now I accept that this is unlikely to happen and hey, it’s only the internet but I thought I would be a little bit provocative because the sensible posts don’t seem to attract much discussion icon smile OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

We want eight and we won’t wait, how about 6 Type 26 instead?

Has anyone spit out their cornflakes yet?

 

About Think Defence

Think Defence hopes to start sensible conversations about UK defence issues, no agenda or no campaign but there might be one or two posts on containers, bridges and mexeflotes!

740 thoughts on “OK, OK, Lets Talk about the Type 26

  1. x

    @ APATS

    I think somebody said 10,000m because I said all was needed was 3,000m.

    But all I did was count the vehicles in T58 reg, 2 x armoured infantry battalions, and times it by 10m per vehicle. Of course I didn’t include guns, wedgeheads, and other baggage etc. I would say 10,000m seems excessive.

    Sorry I have been unable to comment today; sorry because my throwaway posts seem to have caused a bit of disagreement. First day of the TT 2012 and my internet goes tits up. :(

  2. All Politicians are the Same

    James, So if we had 3 Bays and 2 LPDs we are only 400 LIMs short. Selling that Bay seems pretty stupid now. I am wondering if the idea is not to build a basic spec RFA, commercially all dock and deck to maximise LIMs and space for an offload. Forget troop accomodation, mission briefing rooms etc, this thing has one job only to act as an offload platform for her vehicles over a beach. Make the dock LCAC capable as well.
    Could it also be able to act as a conventional Ro Ro so sub contract as a car transporter when not needed by RN?

  3. James

    Anixtu,

    Feb-May 89. I may have got the ECDIS / WECDIS designation wrong. It was when Bristol had the cadets from Dartmouth onboard for a few weeks, then did a Baltic cruise. They’d certainly had something electronic installed to replace charts, hence the chart room becoming available.

  4. x

    @ APATS said “so sub contract as a car transporter when not needed by RN”

    Um. No.

    @ James

    I think what I am trying to say is I want “Spearhead Plus at Sea”. If you get my drift.

  5. Peter Elliott

    @APATS

    Do you not like the MLP Concept?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Landing_Platform

    It seems to me like a dead cheap way of upgrading our existing capability. For half the price of a frigate (circe £120m) we get the ability to unload all 6 Point Class over the beach. Enough lane metres to deliver @James’ requirement for not one but two army brigades.

    How quickly they can unload will depend on how close to the beach we come, sea states, whether we upgrade for LCU to PASCAT etc etc. Bearing in mind the landing area would have already have been secured by elements of 3 Cdo or 16 AAB I don’t see this as a huge drama.

  6. James

    APATS,

    can’t speak as to type / design / shape / size of the boat, but what it needs to do is to stick down a ramp and let the Army drive ashore or some dinky little LCsomething ferry the wagons ashore.

    Not sure it should be sublet to the Dover-Calais ferry run though – I’d rather it was in service full time, so available for exercises etc.

    Also, no need to build a new one if a suitable design exists. Buy one on the used market, paint it grey, give it an Andrew name, Bob’s your uncle. It’s only got one job to do. So long as it can make it down to the FI or somewhere similarly remote, who cares?

    @ Peter Elliott,

    what, no love for RFA Fergie? She’s cheap as chips.

  7. Anixtu

    x,

    “I think somebody said 10,000m because I said all was needed was 3,000m.”

    10,000 LIMs is closer to what I had in mind for a light amphibious brigade, all inclusive.

    James,

    Electronic chart plotter thingummies might have been available at that time, but they really shouldn’t have been navigating on those in place of a paper chart. Naughty!

  8. All Politicians are the Same

    Peter Elliot, No I do like it, very much. Each point Class gives us an extra 2,600 LIMs. Also the MLP should let us offload virtually any RO RO. Of course by this point it is an offload and not an assualt but we do not do opposed landings and we have enough traditional amphib capability to secure the beach.

  9. x

    @ APATS

    The idea is that the ARG is at sea, not sitting alongside in Guzz. Might work for RFA or a similar arrangement to the Points not for a ship that is in use and has to be fought.

    I am trying to keep you and Somewhat in a job. Work with me…..! :)

    I can’t believe that the idea of having about 1% of UK land forces at sea, ready to swing into action at any moment is such an outlandish idea. Especially for an island nation on the edge of nowhere…….

    My internet connection is dodgy so forgive my terse replies.

    @ Anixtu

    Thanks. Saved me counting up. I can’t find a reference in Brassey’s for LM.

  10. Peter Elliott

    Are the Point Class ordinary Ro-Ro? Or being RFA perhaps they are built with some basic survivability features that a commercial ship lacks?

  11. The Other Chris

    Not surprised about DK Brown’s concerns: Atlantic Conveyor’s radar cross section was so large that decoys had a difficult time.

    Chaff was launched and attempts were made to extend her radar return with Sea Kings holding station nearby in the hope that missiles would pass between conveyor and the helicopter.

    Mr. Brown also highlights that civilian construction usually means that risers for fire fighting equipment are usually kept dry due to cheaper, less salt resistant materials compared to military vessels who usually have their risers wet with salt water ready for instant use.

  12. x

    @ APATS

    It isn’t about opposed landings. It is about landing at a place of our choosing. It is about not relying on Third World ports. Think of it this way. You load up your flotilla in lovely Devonport. Travel 8000nm unimpeded across the international open highway, the global common, that is the sea and then you don’t think the ability to land at any place of our choosing is needed? That is like going all the way to Florida, queuing to get into Disney Land, getting to the front of the queue, and then buggering off home. It is about using the sea flank to our advantage. “Engage the enemy more closely” as a wise man said….

    PS I am also grumpy because Tigers lost; I will be difficult now until July at least.

  13. All Politicians are the Same

    X, wait a minute I never said we should not be able to. Merely exploring what the requirement is, what the current and planned capability offers us and how best to bridge the gap.
    Can anyone explain why Sky had the premiership all season and ESPN the final? Needless to say I do not have ESPN.

  14. Peter Elliott

    As regards the ‘Atlantic Conveyor’ scenario that’s why we are going to have 65,000T of CVF parked just behind us loaded with Lockheed Martin’s finest, and a T45 or two to zap anything that gets past the Kevins.

  15. James

    X,

    my sympathies (well not so much as I’m hard over on the ‘Quins being brilliant). We played them once having won the Army inter-Regimental (93 or 94, can’t quite remember). I think they stopped being serious at about 55-5, Lord knows what the final score was. The evening at the Stoop was memorable – including a pair of identical twin strippers that someone got in from somewhere. They put £3,000 into SSAFA as well, which was brilliant. Still got a ‘Quins shirt in the wardrobe from that day.

  16. James

    Peter,

    “parked just behind us”…. you may want to check the doctrine on that. Last time it was serious, the boys nearly qualified for the Far East Medal, and the Far East was two oceans over from where the action was.

    You have to wonder at the thinking of the Andrew when the SHARS were only able to offer 10 minutes on station CAP, with 40 minutes transit either way.

  17. x

    @ APATS

    I think when Sky bought ESPN they saw it as a good revenue move. So Sky Sports subscribers end up with Heineken, some Premiership, and the Championship. While ESPN subscribers get lots and lots and lots of Premiership rugby. Some Saturdays they have 3 matches. TBH I couldn’t give two hoots about Heineken. The Championship is rather good. Of course if you are Sky subsriber and are a rugby addict you can watch BBC regional programmes too like Scrum V on BBC2 Wales. Assuming of course you don’t live in Wales and get it anyway…….

  18. All Politicians are the Same

    James, The biggest bitch by the army ref the positioning of Hermes (as command platform) in 1982 was the comms difficulties due to their HF limitations. This led to difficulties in requesting air cover. The loss of a Carrier in 82 was seen as a mission kill.
    Of course we may have learned from these issues, maybe we look at threat, defences available, AEW capabilities and the coverage and mission required before deciding on where to operate from.

    X Sky sports normally has a game on and all the Heineken Cup which is a bit more entertaining than the attritional Aviva.

  19. x

    @ APATS

    HC is only interesting if Tigers are in it and winning. I do take your point about the Aviva. Not because of the HC because of the Championship. Clean, hard, ball to hand rugby with commitment. Some of the behaviour I see now in the Aviva reminds me of that in soccer. I think Exeter’s success is partly down to them still being at heart a Championship side. And I think in a way the same could be said of how Saracens go about their business.

  20. Challenger

    Back on the subject of Type 26. A lot of people have mentioned how the UK has the best anti submarine warfare capability in the world. I wouldn’t deny this or it’s usefulness.

    Having 8 Type 26 frigates with 2087 will keep us at the cutting edge of this field of warfare. Even more important is having a fleet of 30 ASW Merlin’s because depending on the level of the threat these helicopters can be spread across the fleet, providing fantastic ASW cover. We don’t need anything big and better than this.

    For me though a couple of points arise here.

    The first is why are we building 5 GP Type 26′s? Taking away the sonar leaves us with a ship that is neither high-end capable or low-end and cheap. Lets spend that money somewhere else, ideally on cheaper and more numerous corvettes.

    The second point is that TD is right in saying we haven’t had to deal with a really potent submarine threat since WW2. You need to cover all the bases and keep a sufficient capability going but not at the expense of other more relevant areas. Air defence, anti submarine warfare and lots of other things are ten a penny out there amongst our allies. Amphibians, nuclear subs and mine hunters are less available and things we do really well, it’s what we should be focusing on. As many people have said it’s about bringing something useful to the table that in demand and in short supply.

  21. The Other Chris

    I think the figure of 3-5 “GP” vessels stems from the idea of replacing 13 Type 23′s 1-for-1 and the transfer of 8-10 2087 sonar sets.

    It’s possible (!) that T26 vessels will be produced in greater numbers than 13 and/or that more 2087 sets (or their eventual improved replacement) could be purchased.

    I think the Merlin fleet is vital to the success of 2087, the two systems working in conjunction to overwhelm a submarines defences.

    With regards facing submarine threats, I agree with the counter position that San Luis was a credible threat during the Falklands. Submarines are arguably the modern Capital ship / Man O’War / 1st Rate Ship of the Line.

  22. ArmChairCivvy

    @ Chris B and Observer yesterday p.m.

    Agree with almost everything you say, but for one: a friendly port to deploy from/ through is a far too restrictive planning assumption?

    Add Dieppe to “Gallipoli being a negative example, and Normandy being a positive one, within limits” and it proved that taking a defended port should not be relied on (lacking a friendly one in the area).
    - has this changed, with sizeable vertical lift and an OTH, lightning surprise raid? I have my doubts

    And if over an undefended beach is then the option, many have raised the question: what could a BG achieve? Hence I am all for the “brigade planning assumption” and sizing the fleet accordingly.

  23. ArmChairCivvy

    Hi PE, RE “missing is the ship-to-shore connector: for which a relatively cheap technical solution already exists”
    - I agree
    - but building just one would make for a colossal single point of failure
    - I would be happy to see two of them as “Ocean replacement”, taking into account what CVF can do to cover capabilities for which there currently are no substitutes

  24. ArmChairCivvy

    usni.org on its blog laments the gap between LCSs (not there yet) and our linked patrol boat (news), and makes an inventory of what a fully deployed US coastal navy looks like (before calling in the USCG, which I would guess would only be done in war):
    “a force posture shift in the Gulf. Right now, four additional Avenger-class mine countermeasures ships are enroute to Bahrain to reinforce the four already forward deployed there — as well as British and other allied minesweepers. Additional MCM helicopters and the USS Ponce (currently being converted) are not far behind. They join five Cyclone-class patrol boats. ”
    - if the original Streetfighter concept had been followed (rather than the two LCS designs) there would be no gap

  25. ArmChairCivvy

    Could not at first find the reference I wanted, from McZ, for the above
    ” I once proposed a SIGMA-based T27, but I view the latest T26-pictures as equally acceptable. The only shortcoming IMO is the lack of green water capacity, but we will most likely be capable to somehow compensate this.”
    - which I agree with
    - I am just wondering what that “somehow compensate” could exactly be?

  26. Obsvr

    @APATS
    “The beauty of NGS was that by putting the shooter in a box and the 148 battery in an MPA with full authority for the 5 pillars and engagement we had a flexible undetected capability which could fire multiple rounds and switch targets quickly.
    With the advent of such systems as the new Oto Breda Gun and guided munitions with UAS NGS will become more important.”

    As I said precision munitions need precise targets and precision targetting. UAS might help with this, but a bloke with binos in an a/c is not doing precision targetting. A 127 mm rd does not offer much by way of lethality, and given the dispersion of naval gunfire its totally useless for close suppressive fire. Acknowledging that costs should come down, its usefull to note that the prices of 155mm Excalibur and a GMLR are much the same (the later has a much more benign ‘launch environment’). However, in terms of effect there is no doubt which is better. Naval gunfire did not affect the Libyan outcome one iota, its use was nothing more than a naval stunt to imporess the punters, laughable if it wasn’t so pitiable.

  27. Simon

    James,

    I didn’t mean we would take 48 MBT. Just that we have that kind of capability (and that’s limited by weight not size). In addition it’s not 24 shuttle runs when you have 4 LCU on Albion too (6 LCU in total would unload 48 tanks in 8 runs – or about 8 hours).

    You could, instead land about 4 times as many trucks/Viking in the same time!

    Also, Bay’s dock is LCAC capable so you could speed up some of these runs… if we actually had a couple of LCAC!

    I’ve had chats with Observer about the whole amphibious assault process as I see/saw the assault, primarily by air, securing the beach to simply offload at their relative leisure. Seems I was wrong!

    Air assault + LCU/LCAC/mexifloat offload ?

  28. Repulse

    As discussed, alongside the T45, (reluctantly) T26 ASW and Black Swans IIs / Venator’s / SIMMS, I believe the RN needs a decent smaller patrol craft which would replace the current P2000′s / Sabre’s. These vessels would be larger than the current ships and capable of independent md shore / Littoral patrol and survellance operations. Something with a reasonable range (3-4,000 nm), endurance ~21 days and a range of light weapons.

    Some examples:

    - Armidale Class: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armidale_class_patrol_boat/
    - Cape Class: http://www.austal.com/en/products-and-services/defence-products/patrol-boats/cape-class-patrol-boats.aspx
    - STX Canada Marine PV62: http://www.stxmarine.net/pdf/PV62-br-web.pdf
    - Damen Stan Patrol SPA 5009: http://articles.maritimepropulsion.com/article/Stan-Patrol-SPA-500916146.aspx

    Perhaps even:
    - Gowind Class(Sovereignty Enforcer version): http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/gowind_corvettes/

    I’m sure these have been published before, but below are links to some BMT Mothership concepts. Some budget saved from the not going ahead with the 5 T26 GP’s could enable the RN to get a couple of these.

    - http://navy-matters.beedall.com/fsc-pre2005.htm/ (2/3rd down the page)
    - http://www.shipbucket.com/images.php?dir=Never%20Built%20Designs/Great%20Britain/GB%20AK%20BMT_%20Fast%20Mothership%20Concept%201.gif

  29. Anixtu

    ACC,

    “(before calling in the USCG, which I would guess would only be done in war)”

    USCG have been deployed to the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean for some time. From patrol boats to high endurance cutters.

    Simon,

    Bay class dock is not (USN) LCAC compatible. Too narrow.

  30. Simon

    Anixtu,

    Lord knows where I read that then. I thought it was about 15m wide and made a lot of sense. Oh well, just another factoid to write off as poor design!

    Are you sure the space in the well isn’t just used up by another structure? Gantry? It sure as hell looks much wider than a single LCU from the outside!

  31. James

    Simon,

    even with the extra LCUs, 8 hours is a nonsense. Have you ever done a Battle Group attack? You deliver about 60 armoured vehicles and 400 soldiers onto an objective all at the same time. Not over 8 hours in dribs and drabs. Concentration of force, firepower and shock action does not occur with a series of shuttle runs over an extended period. If you scale up your proposal to the sort of force levels employed on D-Day , it would have become D-Month.

    I have always argued that a Brigade – as the first sensible and grown up level of force – over an undefended beach is what we should aspire to. Undefended as it would be insane in today’s world to believe that a bayonet in the teeth assault onto a defended beach would be politically acceptable. But undefended does not mean unreacted upon, so speed is still of the essence. Having some experience of these things, I do believe that 2 hours is about the right balance between shock action and not having an unaffordably large amphibious fleet which only does one thing.

    So, the F and A1 Echelons of four Battle Groups, and the Brigade C2 and CS elements in 2 hours. Trades between helicopters and landing craft available. Thinking about a fairly standard light infantry Brigade, that is about 3200 men and something between 100-150 vehicles, none heavier than 5 tonnes.

    It is about 200 LCU shuttles without helicopters, or less as you increase the Chinook availability (working on 100 men / LCU, 4 vehicles / LCU, and 50 men / Chinook)

  32. x

    There is a reason why a USMC MEU only has a platoon of 4 M1A1. The logistical load is too much to carry even for 4 more.

    @ Chris B

    I had crap internet access yesterday so I couldn’t reply.

    When I say “across the beach” I am talking about the ability to move and rapidly land a formation either literally across a beach or through a port or a mixture. I definitely don’t mean storming up the beach under fire.

    As for a battle group isn’t much well no it isn’t. But in qualitative terms a battalion of British infantry supported by a cavalry squadron and a battery of guns using modern command and control systems lead by a command staff with a profound grounding in military affairs is the equal and better of formations many times larger found in the majority of the world. Channelling James rapid movement and fire-power delivered at the enemies centre of gravity.

    But a battle group is only a start. One of the reasons why I say build ships that have the capacity (when formed in an ARG) to carry 2/3 of a brigade. If we had 3 such ARGs we would have the ability to group them together to carry a brigade with ease (a brigade being bigger than 3 x battle groups as there would be other support elements). And as it keeps on getting said we will unlikely be doing anything on our own. Imagine a British brigade landing with a USMC brigade. Imagine a British brigade landing with a French brigade perhaps with NL, Italian, and Spanish elements. Imagine a British battlegroup supporting an ANZAC group in the South Pacific. These are big formations which would take similar probably large formations to dislodge. All supported from the sea. 1300 or so disciplined souls working in concert can be employed for other reasons than just war or to practice war.

    As for keeping the ARG sitting alongside just in case that isn’t the way to go about it. It needs to be at sea. Exercising with our allies from Norway to the US to the Gulf to the Antipodes. Demonstrating it capabilities to friends and enemies alike. It is a deterrent. An ARG sitting alongside may be a force in being but it is unknown and untested. And could be construed as fat to be cut. If we went this route of having a few per cent of our land forces at sea there would be a group working up or just returned that cover an emergency in extremis. Imagine the at sea ARG exercising in the Med and there is a need to deter Guatamala in the Caribbean. The at sea ARG packs up and heads west. The group in Devonport is put on notice and if needed it can put to sea and join the other ARG.

    Armoured brigades are nice to have. But as I said above the logistic train to support such a formation is long. The shipping needs would be considerable. Viking/Broncos or modern 8×8 would be sufficient armour for most conflicts. And though the direct fire of 120mm is considerable (there is a reason why the USMC thinks 4 M1A1 are worth the trouble for an MEU to carry) the armour threat found in the majority of the world could be dealt with by Javelin. As was shown by the Germans in France in 1940 (and by us in SE Asia using UC) it isn’t the size or firepower of a tank more the way it is employed.

    When as I was talking about LC and helicopters I was talking about perceptions of value and worth and need. Some here are struggling with my mad idea of keeping 1% or so of our land forces at sea. Note I am trying to avoid saying Marine which for me is difficult! Though we agree on so much here we all attach own value and worth to various defence assets.

  33. x

    @ Anixtu

    Yum. Ship porn. Nice. :)

    @ All

    A gold star to whoever identifies the class of the other vessel in Anixtu’s photo.

  34. jedibeeftrix

    “One of the reasons why I say build ships that have the capacity (when formed in an ARG) to carry 2/3 of a brigade”

    My desired end-point is to enable the full 3Cdo brigade to roll over a beach, but if we are going to take shortcuts then at least maintain that ability in extremis (overload plus rotated units worked up together), even if the day to day ARG consists of one (of two) CVF, one (of two LPD), one (of three LSD) and one LPH.

    I still like the idea of a FR regiment (i know they are called something else these days) using warthogs and BAE’s 17 tonne, CT40 equipped, CVR(t) v2.0. Able to provide light armour support to our light punitive-intervention brigades (3Cdo and 16AAB).

  35. x

    @ Jedibeeftrix

    But I am on about having multiple ARGs at least 3 better 4……. :)

    If I was to be silly our current situation is rather like us having a company of hundred of plumbers or whatever trade and only one little van.

    Within our current orbat we need to put 3Cdo and just the red berret wearing elements of 16AAB into one division. And give that division an FRR. Not espousing RM and Para.

  36. SomewhatInvolved

    Challenger,

    The need for x Type 26 ASW hulls and y GP hulls is a bit of a myth. It’s a product of some uneducated interpretation of the Type 26 requirement by those focussing too closely on the toys installed on said ships.

    The T26 requirement is a requirement to replace the Type 23 hull for hull, because with so few escort-sized ships remaining to us we are in the tightest of tight numbers games trying to meet the commitments thrust upon us. Including the Type 45′s, we currently only have 17 such hulls – the last 2 Type 42′s with any life left in them, the two in-service T45′s and the 23′s. 17 hulls at the moment does not fully cover the South Atlantic and Middle East permanent station requirements, the need for two home waters ready units (FRE and Duty TAPS), plus any escort requirement for power projection tasking (e.g. the Cougar deployment latesr this year), the current refit and maintenance cycle and the transit times cycling ships onto and off station. We can’t cover the home requirement (we’ve had one ship doing both jobs for some years now), and ships have absolutely no free time anywhere in the cycle to maintain their own OC, let alone conduct trials and assessments to counter the ever proliferating threats out there. The current duty cycle is punishing, and ships are spending longer and longer in refit and maintenance because of it, to say nothing for crew stress and separation. So despite the much-vaunted lower maintenance requirements of modern ships and the Type 26 (like Type 45 – hah! lower maintenance my arse), it will certainly be called upon to do far more than it was originally designed for, and that maintenance advantage will have become simply a basic standard to maintain. And the hull numbers mean that you do not always need to send an ASW specialist to do a GP ship’s job, but the reverse isn’t true.

    The basic Type 23, what some would call a GP hull and which you suggest is neither high-end capable nor cheap, is very effective. High end capable seems to be this universal requirement to be able to dominate a million square miles of ocean whilst raining Tomahawk laden death on Osama’s buddies. The general level of threat is rising in complexity and sophistication, but the general standard of a frigate able to defend itself in a moderate threat environment and pose a serious threat to 85-90% of the LIKELY threats out there is still valid, although it obviously needs to be updated to the latest standard (SeaCeptor, long ranged gun, 997, etc) and as TD pointed out possess room for growth.

    Again as TD has made clear (and as I have always supported), the development of Type 26 technologies early, trialled and risk-reduced in the end-stages of the T23′s life cycle and transferred to new hulls is simply good business sense. Many of these systems, 997 and 2087 to make a point, will not need the major hardware components upgrading for decades and instead will need only software upgrades to improve the processing of the raw data. So this stuff will last for the lifetime of the T26.

    Finally, if the MOD and designers ignore the ASW specialist/GP debate, the technology and systems across the Type 26 fleet will be 99% common. The only difference should be the fitting of the 2087 sonar system, with the equipment occupying a compartment that would otherwise be empty or used for other purposes, and the choice of helicopter parked in the hanger. Common kit = common capability and reduced costs.

    You can always send a frigate to do a corvette’s job, but you can’t do the reverse. We do need hull numbers – but compromising on the hull is not the answer, unless our global role is going to be fundamentally rewritten and, frankly, degraded.

  37. SomewhatInvolved

    Sorry, should have added to the ‘high-end capable’ requirement the ability to single handedly take on the entire Chinese navy – seems to be another common requirement these days.

  38. James

    @ SI,

    interesting on the two home waters requirements. I know how it works for Army units doing a cycle of commitments, so I’m going to accept completely your assessment of the stresses of managing your naval commitments with the 17 hulls.

    However, genuine question, if we have covered both home waters commitments with one ship for several years, is it not time to consider whether there really are two separate commitments? Before we get into spending too much none-existent money on lots of new hulls, perhaps we should have a fundamental root and branch review of the commitments.

  39. Peter Elliott

    @ACC

    Well the ‘Modified Bay Class’ we were talking about for an ‘Argus replacement’ could conceivably do the MLP job if the design inlcudes a ramp from the flight deck down to the vehicle deck.

    When in the Aviation Support or Mothership role you can stash addtional small helos or other equipment downstairs. But when its empty you can drop the stern door of a Point Class onto the flightdeck and drive the trucks across the flight deck, down the ramp to the vehicle deck and into the queue of LCUs or PASCATs lining up to take them to the beach.

    “- but building just one would make for a colossal single point of failure
    - I would be happy to see two of them as “Ocean replacement””

  40. Gareth Jones

    @ ACC – In your opinion is there a OTS ship which could fill the “street fighter gap”, and is there a need for such a craft in the Royal Navy?

    RE: ship to shore connectors. Does anybody think we should bring back the beaching capability we lost with the retirement of the Sir class?

    There is this idea from TSSE but it’s designed to run back and forth between a near by sea base and the shore, so its emphasis on speed over endurance:

    http://www.nps.edu/academics/gseas/tsse/subpages/2004Project_2.html

  41. Observer

    @Simon

    You are right in saying a beach landing would involve NGS and CAS clearing the beach before putting boots on it, the hard hitting 1st wave is there just in case CAS missed out a squad or 2. Infantry really are like cockroaches, hard to find, and hard to kill in hiding. You really don’t want to unload from a landing craft only to find CAS somehow overlooked a squad or 2 with SAWs. Bad news for clustered infantry.

    As for an opposed port landing… I would strongly oppose it. It’s even harder to clean out a port than a pristine beach, too many buildings, too many blind corners, too many places for IEDs and the structures would provide cover against CAS, not to mention planting units into TEUs makes it a hell of a difficult hide and seek game. D-Day +1 is a really nasty time to find that the enemy has mixed light tanks and infantry in with the normal containers in the port.

    @Obsvr

    “bloke with binos in an a/c is not doing precision targetting”

    Hey, I resent this. :P

  42. Simon

    James,

    “…3200 men and something between 100-150 vehicles, none heavier than 5 tonnes.”

    Ahh, that’d take about 4-hours! A bit less if both LPDs were available.

    I guess you’re after twice the speed and therefore twice the fleet?

    Can I ask what is the point in landing so many vehicles so quickly is? Surely the vehicles help push the “front line” forward once the main landing beach is secured? Furthermore it’s easier (for us) to outmaneuver an opponent with aviation assets (make them spread out too thinly) rather than to outweigh them with armour and wheels?

    Anixtu,

    Cheers for the pic. It must narrow pretty considerably unless my 25m beam figure is also wrong for Bay?

    x,

    Zodiac? ;-)

  43. Observer

    @Simon

    The purpose of an amphibious assault/coastal hook is to encircle the enemy and block them off from their main force, or hit them from an unexpected direction. If you delayed, a fast thinking enemy can either

    1) Hit you when you’re unloading, causing total chaos for you and potentially total destruction of your force (no way to retreat back).

    2) Break back out to their main force if your encirclement is too slow.

    Aviation is less useful in case 2 as they can’t “park” in a location long term and physically block the enemy from running away, though they can straf small groups of retreating enemies.

    Currently, Western air assets have not yet hit anyone with serious anti-air yet, just imagine how Apaches would have fared against infantry armed with Stingers. And a loss of a helicopter is much more severe than the loss of a single man with a MANPAD.

    At the rate things are going, are we going to go back to LSTs? Useful in the scenario, but I really don’t like beaching ships.

  44. All Politicians are the Same

    Observer, that is only 1 possible use. It may simply be the only way to land troops (Assault) to evacuate troops (withdrawal) to achieve an aim and withdraw (raid) or to fix enemy forces (demonstration).
    In the case of an assault it will be about establishing a protected beachhead to allow an administrative offfload. Unless we are invading a Tier 1 country (which we shouldn’t be doing on our won) we will have enough amphib capability to do this.
    If speed is of the essence then we either have the assets or the plan is not feasible.

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