Royal Navy Sea King Mk4′s from the Commando Helicopter Force (CHF) on a training exercise in Norway
A Royal Navy Sea King Mk4 helicopter is pictured in Northern Norway during Arctic flying training. The training takes place some 200 miles inside the Arctic Circle at the Joint Helicopter Command (JHC) base near Bardufoss. The JHC base known as “Clockwork” provides survival and operational training and support facilities to enable aviation capable unit’s arms to survive, operate and fight in extreme C2 environments
A Royal Navy Sea King Mk4 helicopter is pictured in Northern Norway during Arctic flying training. The training takes place some 200 miles inside the Arctic Circle at the Joint Helicopter Command (JHC) base near Bardufoss. The JHC base known as “Clockwork” provides survival and operational training and support facilities to enable aviation capable unit’s arms to survive, operate and fight in extreme C2 environments
Royal Navy Sea King Mk4 helicopter pilots and aircrews from Commando Helicopter Force (CHF) carry out Arctic flying training, the training takes place some 200 miles inside the Arctic Circle at the Joint Helicopter Command (JHC) base near Bardufoss, Norway. The JHC base known as “Clockwork” provides survival and operational training and support facilities to enable aviation capable unit’s arms to survive, operate and fight in extreme C2 environments.
Royal Navy Sea King Mk4 Helicopter Practices Load Lifting Drills in Norway
Royal Navy Sea King Mk4 Helicopter Practices Load Lifting Drills in Norway
Royal Navy Sea King Mk4 Helicopter Practices Load Lifting Drills in Norway
Royal Navy Sea King Mk4 Helicopter Practices Load Lifting Drills in Norway
Nice. Thanks TD.
Seconded.
All Junglies crews are wonderfully buccaneer in their attitude. Super. Super stuff.
This may be a bit left field, but I do wonder if we should be upgrading our Sea Kings instead of talking about replacing them. The Sikorsky & Carson S-61T Triton basically zero-times the airframe, and would completely renew the fleet. This would be relevant for the Commando helicopter force, but also the ASaC-7 AEW helicopters, and indeed the SAR helicopter fleet! It would enable us to keep them in service for another twenty, thirty or even forty years!
Worthwhile?
Ed,
I think the wheels are already in motion to retire the Sea King, so it’s probably too late. The ASAC might benefit from an extension if the current rate of fannying about on MASC/CrowsNest keeps up. Plus Merlin HC3/4 will be a bigger and faster beast and we’d be down to two airframe types in the RN, saving costs there, and Merlins will also get the new cockpit from HM2 plus the load carrying and resilience issues have largely been solved thanks to a battering in Afghanistan.
@Ed
Makes sense to me,Ed. Kill two birds with one stone, as it were. I don’t know about another forty years, though. Twenty-five perhaps!
Used to see them a lot around the Cornish coast down here (I live near Culdrose) and they really did look (and perform) the business.
@ Somewhatinvolved
I agree that there are benefits to the drive towards the two type fleet, but my thinking was particularly about the Marine support role and SAR birds. This is because they are both in need of replacement, yet without the funding to achieve it! Basically, the aim would be to ‘replace’ without needing to buy expensive replacements. If we could get rebuilds to replace the current fleet on at least a one-for-one ratio, then that’s a lot better than retiring them in favour of taking the RAF’s Merlins. If they get the Merlins, then the RAF support helicopter fleet shrinks markedly – no Merlins, not to mention far fewer Pumas being upgraded, and fewer Chinooks ordered.
@ Mike
I know twenty years is more likely, but as long as they can be rebuilt/zero timed, then their retirement potentially becomes a matter of choice.
Merlin is roomier and its easier to get on and off (matters in an assault). Not to mention all the other advantages it has over a Sea King, which are many.
And SAR is going from the RAF. So no need to worry about replacing those cabs.
The Gnome engines are ancient and removing the Sea King fleet means support can be focused on CTS800 and RTM322 + Chinook. This means significant through life cost savings.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the Merlin, and would dearly love for us to be getting some new ones to replace the Sea Kings. The problem, however, is that we aren’t actually getting new ones, but rather retiring the existing Sea Kings, and taking the Merlins away from the RAF. As such, we are facing a big cut in transport helicopters. My suggestion of adopting the S-61T rebuild would simply be an interim solution to keep the SKs in service until new Merlins can be bought, without robbing Peter (RAF) to pay Paul (RN)…
Isn’t all about cash, the Merlin’s need a mid-life upgrade regardless, the logic being bandied about is that the cost of fitting a folding tail boom and folding rotors is cheaper than upgrading the Merlin’s to stay in RAF usage and then upgrading the Sea King’s – plus if the Puma upgrade is anything to go by we would get only another 10 – 15 years of service.
The reality is that across the board numbers of helicopters are dropping – we are replace Lynx and Gazelle with separate functions with fewer Wild Cats, we have abandoned plans for 26 Chinooks and are only buying 14, which means that if in the long term we are going to have a bigger gap when the Puma retires.
Personally, even with our rocky relationship with Russia, I would be tempted to buy lots of new build NATO compliant Mi-171, cheap to buy, cheap to run, rugged and proven rather than waste money on upgrading old helicopters (Puma and Sea King) – not sure how good they would be on a ship and how much work would be needed to upgrade them.
‘the logic being bandied about is that the cost of fitting a folding tail boom and folding rotors is cheaper than upgrading the Merlin’s to stay in RAF usage and then upgrading the Sea King’s’
How so? Will the RN use of them be significantly lower?
If Ocean is alongside for repairs too often and Lusty’s Ollies are proving a bit expensive to run I can see the FAA (well MoD) coming up with all sorts of reasons to cut hours like skipping an exercise or three, cutting back on pilot’s deck landing quals.
‘Lusty’s Ollies’
Say again.
I can’t seem them cutting back to that level, if a upgrade/life extension is required to remain in service, then it’s needed. The only way it would work is if they cut back so far it wouldn’t be worth having them, or they’ll have a very short life in the navy without the required work. Might be a case of ‘ah but that’s a different budget’ type stuff.
HMS Illustrious’ Olympus Gas Turbine Engines
Hi Topman,
The Merlin’s need a midlife upgrade regardless of if they get folding rotor and tail, the logic as I have seen it is that the cost of upgrading Merlin with folding rotor and tail is cheaper than upgrading the Sea Kings given that they have to upgrade the Merlin regardless. Personally I suspect the whole exercise is just a way to hide the massive reduction in SH that JHF is going to have available post 2016 and I put money on the folding tail and rotor being dropped so that the CHF ends up with a whole bunch of Merlin’s that can only operate off a LHD the size CVF and poorly at that.
Personally I prefer a deep up-grade of the Sea King but I see the logic of all the Merlin’s going to the FAA, and I really hope the new helicopter strategy involves a new medium helicopter purchase for a 1:1 replacement of the Puma.
Hi Tubby,
I agree ” I see the logic of all the Merlin’s going to the FAA, and I really hope the new helicopter strategy involves a new medium helicopter purchase for a 1:1 replacement of the Puma”
- somewhere in there might even lurk the CrowsNest
But what about CSAR? The Merlin platform (especially when most of the missions that might end up needing a CSAR capability are likely to be launched from the sea themselves) would make most sense
- also big enough to carry both the medevac and the combat elements
Thanks tubby and x.
All the Merlins, whether green or gray, are ultimately being upgraded to a common standard with the HM2 and HC4, including new cockpit avionics as well as the upgrades to allow the HC3′s to fold and stow. Merlin is a pricey beast but it has far more life in it that a Sea King, so I agree we should just retire the old dear and focus on the new common rotary fleet, especially if that includes the ASAC replacement. The RAF decided that Puma needed to be extended rather than replaced and I think that decision will be regretted in ten years when even the rebuilt old birds start falling apart. That said I’ve heard lots of negative press from Army types about Merlin, saying it’s too big and generates massive downdraft – hence they prefer the smaller Puma. Will be interesting to see what eventually replaces Puma, as we bailed out of NH90 in the ’80s.
I agree SI, it has to be said though that the Sea King is one of the best aircraft programmes we have ever had
How about cancelling the Puma upgrade and using the money to upgrade the Seaking? Will the Puma Mk2 be able to operate in a maritime role? My guess it won’t. If joint ops are the future, then all future rotor craft need to be maritime capable. Seaking is, Puma isn’t.