In the next few months we might know if Typhoon has won the Indian and Japanese fighter competitions.
A lot has been written about the Indian Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MRCA) competition and it is now a straight run off between Typhoon and Rafale. The recent escorting of the Indian Prime Ministers aircraft into Austria by a pair of Typhoons was no doubt anther building block in the media onslaught but arguably of more importance in the competition is its performance over Libya where it demonstrated very high availability and briefings on its pairing with the GR4’s and growth potential will also be a significant factor.
I think I read somewhere that in the recent trials in India the Typhoon was the only one in the competition to achieve a 100% availability rate and was also the only one able to take off at the designated time and place with a full weapon and fuel load, with one engine. This is only internet rumour so who knows but there is no doubt about Typhoon’s performance, its superb human machine interface, ability to supercruise and high G manoeuvrability make it a potent aircraft. Link those qualities up with a decent range of weapons and a clear growth path and it becomes compelling.
Typhoon has a lot going for it in the Indian competition and the reported maritime version that was being discussed recently makes for an even more interesting future.
However, it is the Japanese competition that will have greater impact.
By steadfastly refusing to allow Tokyo to obtain the F22 the USA has set the scene for a competition between the F35, F18 and Typhoon.
In a similar situation, Australia would probably also have liked the F22 but for a number of reasons settled on a stop gap of F18 and a longer term F35 purchase so why would Japan be any different?
In a recent interview for the Financial Times, Japans new defence minister (Yasuo Ichikawa) said Japan’s alliance with the US would not be a “major criterion”
This is of course a seismic shift in their approach to buying defence equipment, the strong strategic relationship between Japan and the USA leading to an almost monopoly market for American defence contractors, especially in the high end aerospace sector.
But if we look at both the strategic landscape, military relations between Japan and the USA and Japan’s increasing confidence in the sector there is evidence that underpins this change in approach.
As the USA looks increasingly towards the Pacific and its relationship with China the chess pieces on the board are beginning to shift, the recent refusal of the USA to sell new aircraft to Taiwan might be weighing heavily on Tokyo’s mind, could they be next?
Of course the refusal to sell them the F22 only reinforces this perception that the USA values its relationship with China more than Japan.
Japan is also increasingly able to design, manufacture and maintain high-tech aerospace equipment and the much enhanced industrial benefits on offer from the Eurofighter consortium will accelerate their industries development.
China is making rapid progress in military technology and the whole western press practically pissing in its pants about the J20 only reinforces the hysteria but whatever one might think of the J20 and whatever it actually is, it shows two things; progress and ambition.
If Japan is to retain any sort of strategic parity with its bigger neighbour, and let’s not forget history here either, it needs an integrated air defence system that marries up many components. The aircraft is only one of those components, something that most people tend to forget when comparing aircraft, but it is an important one.
In the absence of F22 and industrial sharing with the USA, the next logical best choice is a superb multi role fighter combined with strong industrial sharing that will allow Japan to develop its own solutions and enhancements.
Japan is set to decide by the end of December on its way forward for over 40 aircraft.
Although the country is still recovering from the tsunami the deal is still strategically important enough to have a high priority and the economic benefits of the Typhoon are another important consideration.
Interesting times ahead for Eurofighter
I would be interested to know if the MoD’s budget actually benefits directly from export success of Typhoon. Of course it would be good for UK PLC (which ultimately pays for the MoD) but if the MoD never sees any direct benefit it is a harder quantify the value. It would seem that it does, the recent problems caused by the Omani deal not coming to fruition were cited as a reason for short term financial problems, but nevertheless, if anyone knows the exact mechanism please put a comment below.
The answer to this question also raises an interesting set of discussion points about the role of the MoD in defence sales, the value of a defence industrial strategy and the ubiquitous ‘off the shelf’ argument.
It also, of course, reopens the can of worms about JCA, Sea Typhoon and Rafale!
Japan will be the interesting one. Traditionally their main focus has been on pure air superiority in defence against the potential hordes of Russian/Chinese aircraft, rather than running deep, far ranging interdiction strikes back; so stealth with compromises (F35) shouldn’t be as much of a lure but then it is in vogue.
A nice leading in piece;could not figure out, though, where this conclusion came from “refusal to sell them the F22 only reinforces this perception that the USA values its relationship with China more than Japan”.
Standard Missile-3 interceptor missiles deployed on Aegis-equipped destroyers are quite a capable outer air & missile defence screen, so we need to ask what will be the role of the new aircraft. I think the clue is in what it replaces: the venerable Phantoms. A bomb truck
- which of the three candidates has a state-of-the art anti-ship capability? F-35 with NSM
- LM have also offered a local final assembly, which I am sure is a box to tick
India… the air force in dire straits
- a limited number of high-end Sukhois
- about 170 Mig Bisons that will expire in a couple of years (the middle layer)
- LCA (affordable lower end) so many years late that no point counting
There’s a real chance here, even though the middle layer numbers-wise will be decimated (affordability).The Indian version of PAK-FA will save the day with 250 on the order – but could suffer the same kind of delay that all domestic programmes have experienced. Therefore, no risks will be taken – as we have seen in the elimination of US contenders (embargo is a big risk)
I’d only loosely been following the Japan angle, but I think you overstate the US / China friendship.
They arent selling to Taiwan because its a bit of a lost cause (the air war, not the island), I’m amazed they havent folded on selling Japan F22s, unless they think the F35 really is good enough.
I think the J20 is simply the uninformed getting over excited.
Making long runs at Tankers, AWACS, maybe even ships is very different (and much easier) than sneaking up on an F35.
It would be a hell of a leap for Japan to buy the Typhoon, there no chance of it ever operating off Japans “through deck” destroyers, and the US security policy is moving that way.
Regarding direct gain for the MoD.
Yes and No, frequently, the MoD over orders and then sells the over orders (well, in reality, the government cuts funding and offloads, but the outcome is the same).
If the MoD cant offload the equipment (imagine Saudi hadnt taken 72 of our Eurofighters!) we would have to either store it, at cost, or operate it, at greater cost.
i have to agree with the previous comments. this seems like a case for the Typhoon, not a serious evaluation of the merits of the aircraft being offered.
waving the flag a bit here, but the upgrade path of the F/A-18 will be much more robust than the Typhoon simply because the US Navy and Australia operate many more of them. another wave of the flag has to ask…will the Japanese want to be the only nation in the Pacific not flying a stealth fighter?
lastly, the marinized Typhoon will be a tough sell when the Brits have opted for the F-35 to man the decks of its carriers instead of the Sea Typhoon.
in these economic times i understand the desire to sell a home country’s goods but to consider this (and forgive the bluntness) an evaluation of the contenders merits this isn’t.
@ Solomon – I could be wrong but I don’t think the final decision on the JCA (the Main Gate?) has been taken yet. While we were going STOVL the F-35B seemed a shoe-in but now we’ve gone CATOBAR then other contenders are in play; carrrier versions of the Typhoon and Grippen are possible but unlikely unless other countries want to share the costs (India, Chillie). Existing carrier aircraft include the F-35C (the prefered bidder at the mo), Rafale M and the Super (Silent?) Hornet; if it is to remain a joint aircraft with FAA and RAF then F-35C would be the obvious choice but should the services go their own ways, a deal between the French and the FAA could be possible,particulary if we have similar carriers.
As for bigging up the Typhoon,its a good aircraft.
Solomon theres as many typhoons in service around the world as there is super hornet. Both have a production run of about 600. Indeed was Boeing stealth hornet not for international customers only. Boeing are only interesting domestically of staying in the game till super hornet I’d replaced in us navy service from 2025 and the fx program.
Japan is interesting it’s fighter fleet is old and needs replacing relatively quickly this is typhoon and hornets biggest advantage there in full production also given Japan’s geograph and terrain they may prefer a 2 engine a/c. However the threat they face from china probably means they will require signature reduction high g capability and excellent sensor fusion couple to gd range. Which would put f35 top of the list followed by typhoon. However having a carrier capable ac gives them the option to possibly embark on us carriers in the future possibly issues politically for them even having this possibility. All competitors are offering big industry offsets so not much to choose there. My gut feeling suggests f35 for Japan.
As for India not convinced sea typhoon works and I don’t think the engineers at bae are either. Not sure how serious the maritime requirement in India is they have a number of options already there. I think with the hawk line already there and typhoons performance advantage as a pure fighter and bigger production run I think typhoon may just sneak it.
Just a question on cost sharing vs export.
How exactly do export contracts work for a consortium aircraft rather than a home grown one, who takes the biggest slice of the export cake? Italy? Spain? EADS? BAE?
Similarly would UK PLC have benefited more from export of Harrier/Sea Harrier than it would from Tornado or Typhoon? If you could underwrite MOD fast jet orders with guaranteed export contracts would this not provide the same, or greater, cost efficiencies and benefits to manufacturing?
Hi Mark,
RE “As for India not convinced sea typhoon works and I don’t think the engineers at bae are either. Not sure how serious the maritime requirement in India is they have a number of options already there.”
- I agree, it was a paper exercise to make the future upgrade paths look rosy
- their naval pilots are already training on the Mig29K
- the first flight of naval LCA (in July?) has gone awfully quiet in media coverage
- but then again, their carriers are late, too, so who cares (except that operable Harriers are now down to single digits)
The Japanese are known for their like in aircraft that can/does have anti-ship capability, The F1, F2, Phantom… – I wonder what the typhoons anti-ship capability is/could be?
Mike
I cant imagine the NSM, Harpoon or Exocet will be difficult to integrate.
If nothing else, a new (maybe not even that) seeker on Storm Shadow ought to be passable.
Hi Mike/ DJ,
“I cant imagine the NSM,…. will be difficult to integrate.”
This is a done deal.The Norwegians got that and some composite structures out of the deal [to take the F35, they will have more than we...].
Talk is of the Naval/Sea Typhoon being a paper exercise BUT
Mikoyan and Sukhoi were able to adapt land based aircraft into suitable carrier aircraft in the form of the Su27 and Mig29 which are used by Russia, India and shortly China. I don’t think Mikoyan or Sukhoi had much naval aviation experience.
There seems reason in going to the point of suggesting a naval variant if they don’t think it is a) achievable b) not economically penalising to develop for a STOBAR variant.
As for the F35 it loses a lot of its stealth characteristics when carry external stores and isn’t a very dynamic aircraft without its stealth characteristics. Whilst the Japanese went with the F2 variant, are they happy with single engine aircraft? Finally only the F35B would be suitable for their own carriers. With the cost of the F35B rising expedentionally, and all budgets being squeezed it may be not enough aircraft for its exorbitant price.
“India [...] a limited number of high-end Sukhois”
Some 105 Su30 MKI already in service and orders placed for reaching 230 by 2017 are a limited number?
With 126 Typhoons potentially to come on top of that, MIG29K for the naval aviation and participation in the SU50 stealth fighter for 250 more planes, plus their indigenous light fighter with its naval variant too…?
Man, i wish the RAF was dealing with the same “limited numbers”…
Dave
The problem with typhoon is its layout making it more unsuitable than anything else per say. Engines and canards arent in a great place for carrier operations.
As for f35 well its an 9g manoeuvring fighter matching or exceeding F16 thru the envelope not sure why thats not considered dynamic.
The only very hypothetical question with the carriers is would the US like to have the option for another country to utilise its decks in the pacific they might if there own fighter fleet is reduced but the politics on this issue in japan makes me think it will actually count against any carrier a/c even being considered.
“I wonder what the typhoons anti-ship capability is/could be?”
Typhoon is normally offered with the RBS15 Penguin anti-ship missiles.
It is part of the offer to India as well. Other missiles could also be integrated, of course.
“If nothing else, a new (maybe not even that) seeker on Storm Shadow ought to be passable.”
It might not be enough for turning it into an anti-ship weapon… But a new seeker for better chances against moving targets is part of the anglo-french upgrade programme (for the moment still quite “fluid” for lack of funding and planned by 2020 or so), with a Laser-radar seeker named DUMAS tried on a Puma helicopter already as far back as 2006, if i remember correctly.
There’s been and there are studies here, and certainly chances exist.
“are they happy with single engine aircraft?”
Not really. Japan wants both stealth and twin engine (that’s why they pressed so hard for the F22). They now look set to have to accept a compromise, having either one engine and stealth or the opposite.
They need the plane primarily for air superiority over contested islands that China claims, so twin engine and superior handling and agility would be high on my list. Thus it would be Typhoon.
But even if they say that their relation with the US won’t matter in the selection… well.
I do not believe it.
“As for f35 well its an 9g manoeuvring fighter matching or exceeding F16 thru the envelope not sure why thats not considered dynamic.”
Not really. The F35A will have superior handling characteristic compared to an F16E Block 60 only assuming it has 60% of the fuel weight in, and armament limited to two AMRAAM internally.
That gives it an advantage in terms of lower Load for square meter on the wing, and a slightly higher thrust/weight ratio.
Truth is, the F35 is not that fast a plane, nor a real champion of agility.
Hi Gabby,
It is all relative “Some 105 Su30 MKI already in service and orders placed for reaching 230 by 2017 are a limited number?”
- matches Russia, but falls short by a hundred from the illegal copies made in China (I think the latter is their yard stick)
“With 126 Typhoons potentially”
- numbers will go down. Their 170 or so Bisons have shown themselves extremely capable in the Red Flag exercises, but they will soon start to drop off the skies
Yes, 126 is a bigger number than 107 (but there is no rhyme or reason in that comparison)
Typhoon is normally offered with the RBS15 Penguin anti-ship missiles.
Gabby, do you know who has ordered it and when it will be interegrated onto someone’s typhoon?
Gabby
Typhoon was always designed as a fighter and always be a cut above but as for f35 Mach 1.6 is fast enough for me and as for manoeuvring I guess wiki is always right.
Hi Gabby,
Penguin is the Norwegian (Kongsberg) older missile and RBS 15 the Swedish-German one. The latter was probably the best for littoral use (land clutter) before the Norwegians got their NSM ready.
For the record, when comparing the wing loading of an empty F-35C versus an F-16, the F-35 has about 1/6th less weight per square foot of wing area. When comparing them at maximum takeoff weight, the ratio is lower… but still favours the F-35. Thrust to weight favours the F-16, but combat radius is nearly double in the F-35C.
For the Japanese requirement, Typhoon does have one big advantage, and that’s the greater carriage of air-to-air stores, which is likely a prime requirement for the Japanese.
It’s relative though. All the contenders have their pluses and minuses.
The way I see it, Japan is merely spinning its wheels waiting to buy the F-35B for its own carrier.
But, if Japan wants an air superiority airplane and wants delivery soon, they’ll have to go with the Typhoon. The F-35 is still stuck in development hell and Japan can always come back in 3-4 years and ask for more planes.
It depends on how Japan sees its need. If it wants a plane immediately and for air superiority, it’ll get Typhoon. If its worried about bombing / anti-ship and stealth and is willing to wait 5 years or so for the plane, it’ll get the F-35.
And if Japan is smart, it’ll get the Typhoon, make promises to buy the F-35 in about 5 years, and launch a program with Boeing, who will be desperate to accept anything, to build a 5+ gen stealth fighter.
Few points from reading folks’ comments:-
Don’t forget India’s Mirage 2000s, which are being upgraded too.
Sea Typhoon is not much more than corporate marketing BS. The Russians converted their fighters into STOBAR versions by virtue of the fact that they built all their planes (of that generation) tough, and capable of operating from their dog-rough strips, to begin with (half the battle).
It’ll be a heck of a conversion for Japan’s DDHs (which they actually are) to be able to handle F-35Bs. I mean they’d have a job with Harriers, let alone planes much larger and heavier.
This is a fundamental structure and layout of the ships point, rather than a decks melting, anti-F35 one, just to be clear.
Only F-35A is 9g rated.
Mach 1.6 might be fast enough for most purposes but an interceptor needs to cover large areas quickly: F-35 can’t supercruise at all, where Typhoon can better than anything that isn’t an F-22. And Typhoon will come with Meteor, to push that effective radius out even further.
Face is an issue, and Japan will have taken the refusal to be sold F-22 as a snub – on the other hand Eurofighter will show proper respect in doing just about anything in order to get Japan as a programme Partner.
And whilst Japan would not want to be the only top power in that region without a stealth fighter, stealth fighters are national Prestige Projects – so that’s why Japan is developing its own… and a very formidable one it’ll be too; rather than (showing your comparative ineptness by) buying a smaller, compromised one from someone else… which comes with dodgy ownership/sovereignty issues too (something Japanese folks would be far more rankled by than us Brits).
So yeah, Typhoon’s in with a decent chance re Japan. Re India, who can say?; it’ll be decided by corporate assurances that most of us will never, ever, be privy to…. Either plane would be excellent for India, for different reasons.
Something like ‘Yeah, if you become a Eurofighter Partner, of course we’ll help you out with Tejas’ will be what swings it.
Privyet Arkady,
I agree about the smart strategy. However, there are pointers against Boeing and Silent Eagle: its “stealth will be optimized for air to air missions (against X-band radars) and much less effective against ground based radars (which use other frequencies)”
- and it was eliminated from the competition
In my view that would not have happened “If it[Japan] wants a plane immediately and for air superiority”
- so it less likely (again IMHO) that “it’ll get Typhoon”
Anyway, they don’t hang about in Japan
- the RFP deadline just closed
- and they will decide by the year end
This to me tells that they have already decided and the next couple of months are only about validation and getting more industrial concessions
Don’t forget that the number of Silent Eagles currently in existance is one. So it’s not a plane that can just be rolled off production lines as soon as the order comes in.
Hi Chris B,
That’s both a plus and a minus. As Arkady was saying, Japan could probably swing the whole production line their way and start to build up IP for stealth (in their next gen; this one clearly is a stop-gap, but we’ll find out when the numbers get confirmed; even the Phantom is not for ever).
BAE in Japan has conflicting loyalities. I see the chance to put all of Japan’s higher end fighter fleet on the same combat control systems as this one can be retrofitted onto their existing F-15s (and “comes with” the F-35):
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/usaf-prepares-upgrade-strategy-for-f-15e-fleet-324014/
“BAE confirms that the DEWS package is derived from the EW suite designed for the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, using a modular software architecture system called Barracuda.
- A key feature of the system is an interleaving mode that allows the pilot to continue jamming while simultaneously operating the radar and RWR.”
What I envisioned is that the Typhoon purchase, if it is made, would be merely a stopgap. In 10 – 15 years, the plane may only be sufficient for second line defensive missions.
The F-35, for all its advantages, is not a premier air to air interceptor / air superiority fighter. Japan is facing quite a choice, unable to buy the F-22, it has to take either a hit on performance and get stealth (F-35), or get the performance and not have stealth (Typhoon).
Finally, I don’t think the Silent Eagle works for Japan. They should aim higher, and work with Boeing (probably 60-40 cost splitting) to build a new stealth air superiority fighter. One which fits the Japanese needs and will be effective for the next 20 – 30 years.
My strategy was based off three factors.
1) Japan needs fighters now. Their old planes are past obsolescence, do they still fly the F-4? And if I recall correctly, they lost quite a few in the tsunami. This argues strongly for Typhoon. Japan can’t afford to wait for the F-35; if the F-35 is delayed any more, it needs to pull an Australia and buy something in the meantime.
2) The F-35 will probably be bought anyway, as it will replace F-16 variant used for air to ground and anti-shipping. (And maybe as a fighter for their carriers…) So, why try to get the F-35 now? The plane still has massive developmental uncertainty and won’t be delivered, maybe even for 5 + years. What Japan can do today is indicate that they’ll want to buy the F-35, but put the first delivery date down the road. Gets industrial benefits but much less developmental risk.
3) Because Japan’s two fighter choices are less than ideal for the long term, the final element of my purchasing strategy was to enter into a deal with Boeing to produce a 5+ generation fighter. Boeing will be desperate to do any fighter production work and Japan can probably secure quite a few technology transfer deals. This helps Japan, because it allows them to build the fighter plane they want, for the future. And it’ll work with Boeing, who probably wants to lay the groundwork for the F-22s / F-15 Golden Eagle’s replacement. As a result, Japan can expect Boeing to foot much more of the costs or allow much more technology sharing than if it was just a normal program.
The downside is that this is pretty expensive. But the upside is that it keeps purchasing planes for the next 10 years, it opens Japan to new military / industrial ties with Europe, and it allows Japan to always have a Plan B at any stage if the next plane doesn’t pan out.
I wonder if Japan would be interest in the Tranche 1 Typhoons the RAF wants rid of?
53 Typhoons with full air to air but limited air to ground capability. We plan to dump them in 2020 anyway, no reason we wouldnt want to sell them now and take on further 3′s as and when they are built.
If all Japan wants is the ability to loft massive numbers of air to air ordnance, Typhoon delivers….
Domj
About 30 of those are training a/c so hardly what Japan are looking for.
Tsz53
Meteor is on f35 also.
While playing top spec it all fun it’s next to pointless to use when comparing these a/c. Its there combat configuration and capability against there said requirement and thru life cost that will most like decide who wins this contest. That info is simply not public.
MArk
Really?
I thought of all Trance 1s had been upgraded to 2b?
Oh well, scrap that idea then.
They have been update but you want your conversion training ac to fly the same software as your combat ac or the training requirement on you operational Sqn goes up I would have thought.
Mark
You’ve lost me now.
You mentioned updated to 2b I not sure what you meant by that. I interpreted you were talking about software. The tranche 1 ac did go thru a upgrade program to bring there software and mission systems up to a standard of initial tranche 2 ac plus add an austere ground attack capabilty From memory it was called block 5 software. It all got much more complicated since
Good summary here guys
http://www.fast-air.co.uk/typhoon-block-tranche-summary/
@TD
“China is making rapid progress in military technology and the whole western press practically pissing in its pants about the J20 only reinforces the hysteria but whatever one might think of the J20 and whatever it actually is, it shows two things; progress and ambition.”
Ambition is one thing, capability another.
J-20 as an aircraft is one thing, but electronic extravaganza is a whole different story. Also, their engine making skills are still not on par.
As it is, they are paying $50m for a J-10, while the US could procure a basic F-16 Block 60 for roughly the same number. If they finally manage to procure an J-20 aircraft, they will cost out $100-150m per plane.
Maybe they will be capable of paying such a burden. I would not bet on it. The PRC pays for every % of growth with 0.8% of inflation and 1.5% of debt increase. They are making the same faults for the same reasons as we in the last 20 years.
“the recent refusal of the USA to sell new aircraft to Taiwan might be weighing heavily on Tokyo’s mind, could they be next?”
Maybe we should send some sales-staff to Taiwan as well? I guess, 53 Tranche 1 Tiffies on offer would be quite attractive. I fear, we don’t have the nuts, too. It’s a shame.
China is making progress quickly because it’s based on the back of well established engineering and science. Granted it still takes skill to integrate systems etc but I’d bet we will see a massive slow down once they actually have to innovate themselves.
Mark
That was what I meant, the UK has 53 Trance 1 Typhoons, all at the 2b (full A2A austere A2G) capability.
We intend to remove them from service in 2019, for reasons that dont really make sense anymore, but we do intend to be rid of them.
If Japan wants a none stealthy but heavily armed fighter, the Typhoon is a very good choice.
We have 53 we intend to dump, why not sell them Japan.
McZ
Yeah we could, for much the same reason.
I think Taiwans problem is theres no way it can protect an airfield for any length of time during a war, there just isnt the space available.
Without airfields, aircraft are a bit pointless.
DJ,
Bang on. The S300s from mainland cover all of Taiwan except a small NE corner.
- not sure if Russia has withheld the S400s (Triumph) for their own use only. They do a 400 km range (and 250 km up!)
Domj
Because of those 53 just under 30 are 2 seat training ac they. There’s only about 25 single seat combat ac in that inital batch.
Mark
That makes sense then.
So are we keeping the two seaters and just junking the single seaters?
Or is everything still going?
Can the 2 seaters be armed?
France has ordered more 2 than 1 seaters, although primarily because it helps ground attack missions.
I remember sitting through an RAF recruitment event once and being told that in the event of war, once we ran out of Jaguars, Tornados and Harriers, any surving RAF pilots could look foward to being sent up in armed Hawk trainers.
Not quite. 88 Hawks were to be armed with cannon and 2x AIM9s and would be vectored onto targets by F3s using their radar. Sensible plan that increased at a stroke the number of shooters to take on leakers.
Domj
No all going they would require a major mlu at the end of the decade and they’d rather spend the cash else were I guess. There a few 2 seaters in the later purchases. But there is I believe a current train of though that most of the work currently carried out by the ocu can now be transferred to the new hawk as it has better systems and is cheaper than typhoon. These ac are now very easy to fly and simulators can take most of the strain. F35 will also not have a 2 seat trainer.
Not sure what the capability of the 2 seater is.
Phil
Maybe they felt they couldnt say “our air defence is so full of holes even on a good day we’ll have to send up 747 with Paras shouting harsh language out the windows”?
But he definatly said it was a combat losses thing, to be honest, I think lofting them before we’re in that level of doo doo makes far more sense.
Chris B,
Not only just 1 ‘silent eagle’ in existance, but not even 100% representative of the actual product… but S. Korea are pretty interested in it though.
“Gabby, do you know who has ordered it and when it will be interegrated onto someone’s typhoon?”
So far, no one has bought Typhoon and RBS15 package, as none of the current Typhoon customers wanted to invest in a sea-strike capability.
India might be the first who does buy it, as they are interested in sea strike instead. Eurofighter offers that missile now, earlier it had teamed up to offer the Penguin, with some 4 per each Typhoon being transportable.
“Maybe we should send some sales-staff to Taiwan as well? I guess, 53 Tranche 1 Tiffies on offer would be quite attractive. I fear, we don’t have the nuts, too. It’s a shame.”
There was talk that officers in Taiwan push for a VTOL fighter, to be procured urgently: it probably is kind of sci-fi, but it has been said that the country was in negotiation to buy some AV8B+ from the US Marines, which would buy and upgrade the Harrier GR9s from the Uk to fill the holes left by such exchange.
The AV8B+ has less performances as fighter, so it is more easily justified with China. At the same time, it offers some capability to take off even after the 1600 + chinese ballistic missiles aimed on Taiwan severely damage all runways.
But the UK selling, directly, GR9 or Typhoons, facing the rage of China over the matter…? Sadly, it’ll never happen.
“Can the 2 seaters be armed?”
Yeah, sure. The two-seats Tyffy is definitely combat ready.
“That was what I meant, the UK has 53 Trance 1 Typhoons”
52, actually. A Tranche 1 was written off after a bad, bad landing with undercarriage non deployed in 2008, China Lake, US.
52, actually. A Tranche 1 was written off after a bad, bad landing with undercarriage non deployed in 2008, China Lake, US.
It was 17 sqn the typhoon oeu, the a/c had only about 10 hours on it as well. All round pretty embarassing.
Hi Mark @ 09:27
“Meteor is on f35 also.”
I’m not disputing that you know your onions but I like to be certain about these things (especially important where claims about F-35 are concerned): Has it been absolutely confirmed that Meteor will defo be integrated into F-35?
I know that MBDA wants it to be in the Block 5 F-35 upgrade but I haven’t been able to find anything confirming that it actually will be (apart from a lead-in on a Wiki article, contradicted by the main text).
MBDA merely has wording like ‘Candidate/Solution for F-35′ in its publicity materials.
Cheers for any info.
It will be on F35 as it will be the only BVRAAM in UK, Italian service. When and if it will be UK only (uk funded) is another question. The current issue if we call it that is currently its an external carriage only due to fin length. MBDA have touted a cropped fin length version and have funded studies as is briefed here last year.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/picture-mbda-reveals-clipped-fin-meteor-for-f-35-347416/
Meteor will be the basis of the next anti-radiation missile, too.
F35 is not *that* stealthy that it wouldn’t need them. I think Italy bought the new American ones for that use,
- therefore, Mark, interesting that note about UK & Italy (sharing one version, but not another)