I thought I would let things develop a bit before writing a post on Libya, the evacuation and possible implications.
The Evacuation
My first thought on this is to question why after wall to wall reporting, those in country evidently being aware of their surroundings and government advice, expats chose to stay in Libya until the last minute, putting themselves and others in danger. Holding a British Passport does not make one somehow immune from the effects of the world around you and certainly should not be a replacement for old fashioned common sense. I wonder how much UK tax those hopping on C130’s and Type 22 Frigates have paid whilst working in Libya, I expect less than those flying C130’s or manning frigates.
I don’t want to sound churlish because when all said and done, those evacuated are British citizens but, just sayin’
The chaos of the situation is plainly evident, with differing reports of how many people have been evacuated posted on the FCO, MoD and news organisations web sites. An accurate count is important but some leeway is of course understandable and may be explained by the difference between UK national and others.
The excuse that David Cameron gave for the UK’s apparent tardiness in response was getting the balance right between relying on scheduled flights and charters. The argument is that once government chartered flights start landing then no scheduled operator will continue operations, why should they. This time, it would seem, the calculation of when to wade in with charter flights was taken a little too late and resulted in a gap opening up between the last scheduled flight and first charter flight.
After the decision to go with charter flights was taken a number of ‘technical problems’ arose, which resulted in delays and an even bigger gap.
The gap was such that the RAF even had to send a C130 Hercules, flying from Malta it picked up 64 passengers and a dog.
It should be said that the most effective means of evacuating non combatants from a trouble zone is the conventional civilian transport infrastructure; this should ALWAYS be the default choice but when these fail, special measures have to be taken.
Other nations have sent their own aircraft, Canada is sending a C17, Holland a c130, China managed to evacuate 12,000 people etc
A Royal Navy Type 22 Frigate left Benghazi with 207 passengers, only 68 of them British, for Malta yesterday. HMS York, another soon to be decommissioned ship is also in the area on standby.
The British Government have something called COBR (Cabinet Office Briefing Room) which describes the concept of operations for emergency response, page 21 of this document
COBR only met yesterday for the first time, a bit late I think.
After issuing a grovelling apology David Cameron muttered the immortal lessons will be learned line and Nick Clegg (Deputy Prime Minister) when asked who was in charge whilst the Prime Minister was in the Middle East replied;
Yeah, I suppose I am. I forgot about that. I’m holding the fort but I’m hoping to take the end of the week off with my kids. Someone else will have to do it then
It doesn’t look good does it?
The armed forces have, as usual, responded as one would expect and the cruel irony is that both the C130 and Type 22 are due to be withdrawn in the wake of the SDSR, HMS Cumberland was on her final patrol before being diverted to meet this need. That will be a bitter sweet homecoming, a job well done followed by a P45, remember this when politicians various line up to heap praise on the armed forces.
My favourite article so far goes to the Guardian with its take on the SAS returning to its roots, it amazes me that people get paid to write this tosh although the quote of the week has to be from David Cameron , click here
Doing Something
I had to raise a wry smile at the usual troop of tofu knitting liberals demanding that we ‘do something’ to intervene in the conflict. Whilst the lunatic with a snappy dress sense might be guilty of machine gunning his own people I don’t think he has yet to deploy weapons of mass destruction against them, yet those who were most vociferous in opposing the removal of a certain S Hussain esquire are now those calling for the same kind of regime change.
Ironic, isn’t it.
We have a natural, human tendency, to intervene. Witnessing a fight in a pub our natural reaction is to want to get the antagonists to calm down and stop.
It is the same dynamic that saw NATO’s intervention in the Balkans.
As soon as you deploy the armed forces you are opening up a commitment, even a no fly zone might eventually drag in other forces; it is not a decision to be taken lightly but given the glacial speed at which the UN takes decisions, the likely intransigence of China and Russia, it will be all over by the time a harshly worded joint resolution will be issued.
I am sure Mr Gadaffi is not going to be influenced by harsh punctuation or carefully crafted travel ban.
The UN Security Council are meeting and David Cameron has warned Libya ‘the world is watching’ whilst refusing to rule out military action.
Dave, take a look at what is the MoD’s cupboard after the SDSR hatchet job
The Future
It would seem the dominoes have started to fall but no one really knows how this will end, of course we all hope for the best.
Many are now calling, rather predictably, for a revision of the SDSR and a reversal of the decision to withdraw the Type 22’s and CVS/Harrier, forgetting of course that land bases in Malta, Spain and Italy would make a far more effective location from which to mount such an operation.
As for enforcing a no fly zone, what with exactly?
There have been a couple of sensible suggestions (mostly from the Think Defence readership) for keeping a small number of civilian registered aircraft at high readiness for such gap filling duties. Something like the numerous BAe 146’s now available on the second hand market would be a good choice. They have a good passenger capacity, not too large for small runways and airports, good short field capabilities, already in service so an existing training/maintenance is in place and they do not need a great deal of airport infrastructure (stairs etc). BAe tried sometime to offer a number of second hand models to the MoD as gap fillers between the current equipment and A400/FSTA and they have been chartered to the MoD by Titan Airways for use in the Middle East. The only problem with the BAe 146 is their modest range, they would be limited to where they could operate. An unrefueled return round trip journey would not even be able to cover all of Libya from Malta.
No doubt things are happening in the background.
The real security question is what is going to happen to the possibly hundreds of thousands of refugees, those associated with the old regime or who do not fit with whatever new emerges?
Once they are in the southern EU states they will have relatively easy movement within it and quite probably to the UK. We should be thinking about this now, not frothing about learning lessons or who is in charge as it represents a greater threat to UK security.
I wonder if an EU ‘deal’ to share the burden is on the horizon.
In the medium term, if Gaddafi does go there are a number of possible scenarios. Worse of all would be a tribal or civil war with factions of the armed forces taking up positions on tribal lines but there have been some encouraging signs that the oft predicted venting of harboured grudges will not happen. The east of the country is traditionally more tribal than others but they have demonstrated a great deal of cooperation in freeing themselves of Gaddafi.
The deep rivalry between the military and security apparatus like the 32nd Brigade may also be a source of conflict.
It is an unpredictable time, Libya is not Egypt.
BBC reporting “HMS York was going to the area”… whatever that means. I’m just wondering if a ship such as RFA Argus would be more useful in this scenario – much larger helicopter / transport capability with hospital facilities. Also, it would be much less menacing than an assault ship / frigate.
“Many are now calling, rather predictably, for a revision of the SDSR and a reversal of the decision to withdraw the Type 22’s and CVS/Harrier, forgetting of course that land bases in Malta, Spain and Italy would make a far more effective location from which to mount such an operation.”
I agree for Libya you are right that the CVS/Harrier would be of no use. But, the letter to the Telegraph did make some valid points which should not be so quickly dismissed. Things in Africa and the Middle East seem to be changing at such a rapid pace, is it such a lunacy to keep our options (capabilities) open?
“My first thought on this is to question why after wall to wall reporting, those in country evidently being aware of their surroundings and government advice, expats chose to stay in Libya until the last minute, putting themselves and others in danger. Holding a British Passport does not make one somehow immune from the effects of the world around you and certainly should not be a replacement for old fashioned common sense.
I don’t want to sound churlish because when all said and done, those evacuated are British citizens but, just sayin’”
You should read what the yacht forums are saying about the 4 yachters some Somali Fishing Enforcement Pirates recently offed.
I dont want to hammer exactly the same arguements over and over again, but what exactly could we have done differently a year ago?
The Harriers wouldnt fare very well against Libyas Air Defences (remember the trouble the US had that time) if we went to war.
Unless I’m mistaken, we havent cut any passenger transport, we have in fact, added an additional C17.
how long before the ambulance chasers find that fat whinging civvy and suggest he should sue the govt for being trumatised at his “abandonment” my advice to him seeing as he went to libya of his own free will for big bucks is “man up wet pants” Yes we have an obligation to Uk citizens abroad but hey he got home didn’t he?
On the other side of the fence one of the reasons was they couldn’t get permission from tripoli to land the aircraft, what a bunch of pansies!! churchill must be spinning in his grave
A couple of things. Firstly HMS york was heading to the Falklands to take over guard ship duties has this now been gapped. If it has it shows how stretched the surface fleet is now. Libya may take several weeks to sort out especially if sanctions are imposed.
Second surely a cvs platform would be useful for 2 things command and control and the ability to embark helicopters who could fly in to get people there useful for things more than just fast jets.
Were was the new NSC in all this as soon as the situation in the middle east started snowballing surely they should have been meeting regularly considering are exposure there or is this just another layer of red tape a talking shop.
Finally the amphib task group is due to sail to the med and mid east in april could that be advanced a month? Also the USS Enterprise was due in the 6th fleet area of operation about now.
SDSR has been over taken by events I hope it make people think twice and if nothing else stops any further cuts in PR11. Good on Cumberland too for their professionalism and efficiency, morale must have been low sailing home to decommission.
Given the rapid change in the Arab, options open to us are totally dependent on capability, Harriers may not have been much use, but it would be ‘nice’ to have the option. Libya may not be Egypt but what will be the situation in 3, 6 or 12 months time? We could be dealing with a Caliphate stretching from Morocco to the Israeli border, with no access to the Suez. What then? I get the impression that those expecting the establishment of a load of peace-loving, democratic states north of the Sahara are in for a great big frikkin suprise. Carriers would therefore come in handy for all of NATO, not just the UK.
“Many are now calling, rather predictably, for a revision of the SDSR and a reversal of the decision to withdraw the Type 22’s and CVS/Harrier, forgetting of course that land bases in Malta, Spain and Italy would make a far more effective location from which to mount such an operation.”
Well… but we’re unlikely to want to evacuate people from Libya again, and the next place where it all kicks off may not be so conveniently located. Nigeria, for example; not many Nato airfields near there.
Richard
And?
What are we going to do?
Reform Italian North Africa and use mustard gas on the uppity natives that complain?
There seems to be this really weird belief that we can do Afghanistan/Iraq except with 10x the enemy combatants and 20x the surface area, with a reserve battalion.
Just to add to the responses to: ““Many are now calling, rather predictably, for a revision of the SDSR and a reversal of the decision to withdraw the Type 22’s and CVS/Harrier, forgetting of course that land bases in Malta, Spain and Italy would make a far more effective location from which to mount such an operation.”
Oh yeah, because we have so many viable, available Typhoon squadrons, and Soooo many tanker assets…..
We can’t send transport aircraft – they’re all too busy ferrying troops and casualties between Afghanistan and Brize Norton. Either that or they’re so old and knackered that they are stuck on the ground. Why in the name of all that is good are we still using the Tristar?
SR, have a look here for a look at strategic transport, Trident etc
http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2011/01/the-future-of-the-raf-14-%e2%80%93-strategic-transport-and-refuelling/
DominicJ, What are we going to do?
I never mentioned an Iraq/Afghanistan operation. What I would highlight is the possibility of a lack of friendly ports and airfields, in what is now a highly fluid and unstable region. Harriers and carriers being a viable option for CAP.
Food for thought: http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/middleeast/news/article_1621784.php/Saudi-youth-call-for-protest-in-solidarity-with-Libyan-uprising
Richard Norton Taylor doesn’t know what the phrase “pour oil on troubled waters” means – it means to calm them down, because the heavy oil reduces the action of the waves.
Anyway, as pointed out upthread, the GR9 might not have been much use but the big deck and a dozen helis certainly could. The Italians have San Marco and San Giorgio in the area. What’s really worrying, though, is the apparent absence of planning. COBR could have done with meeting last week. Anyone can miss a revolution, but three in a month looks more than careless.
I echo Alex’s last point about “Anyone can miss a revolution, but three in a month looks more than careless.”.
I think the problem is that in Foreign Affairs the government is at the moment reactive and not proactive. It has no foreign policy strategy. Because it has no strategy there can be no semi-automatic response to crisis – the system just waits until the PM says what is to be done then scurries to catch up. With a strategy you know the intent and the direction of travel and can therefore move along in the general direction without necessarily needing concrete direction.
The lack of strategy has been exacerbated by the increasing centralisation of executive authority in the Cabinet Office and not in the other Departments of State. Even in other departments authority is held at Ministerial level and not delegated. Partly this is a continuation of what we have seen over the last dozen or so years where the media has driven the political agenda, the politicians have become increasingly focused on the 24hr continuous media cycle and controlling the narrative. To do so and to avoid c@@k-ups they have increasingly retained at higher and higher levels decision making. Previously we would have expected the Navy to direct ships towards (but not into) trouble as a matter of prudent anticipation – now nothing happens without Ministerial say so and a staggering amount of mostly nugatory staffing.
This will all be academic soon as we are going to be left with very little with which to accomplish anything even if we wanted to!
What I would highlight is the possibility of a lack of friendly ports and airfields, in what is now a highly fluid and unstable region. Harriers and carriers being a viable option for CAP.
But the suggestion is to use aircraft based in Italy and Spain and Malta. No one’s worried about a caliphate in Spain. (No one who knows anything is worried about a caliphate in North Africa either, but that’s another matter.)
Ships, or aircraft. Or just coordination with the rest of NATO. I don’t have any great objection to UK nationals departing Libya in merchant ships, or those ships being escorted by the Italian Navy. The problem is when neither the UK nationals or the Embassy seem to have had any idea if they can get on the ships, when the next one will be along, what happens if they can’t travel to the port where the ship is.
Of course, sensible people were sensible and the various other NATO partners were willing to take along random Brits, like the guy who travelled on the Polish President’s plane. (Although you’d be forgiven for deciding to take your chances with the Libyan civil war rather than fly Polish Air Force VIP…)
I am sorry, Nick Clegg quote is the best, so sad, nothing to do but laugh. Go ahead “take the end of the week off”…bloody worthless.
“Nick Clegg (Deputy Prime Minister) when asked who was in charge whilst the Prime Minister was in the Middle East replied;
Yeah, I suppose I am. I forgot about that. I’m holding the fort but I’m hoping to take the end of the week off with my kids. Someone else will have to do it then”
WHAT THE FCUK?!?! Bring back Charlie boy; No, bring back Paddy!
As for Liberals calling for interventions, there are some differences with Iraq. One, the possibility of a civil war/failed state on the borders of Europe is not just a Liberal worry; as TD points out, masses of refugees crossing the Med will affect all of Europe. Early intervention could avert this and help produce a stable, democratic neighbour; of course it could make it a whole lot worse! Under the underdeveloped International Law norms a regional body such as NATO or EU can intervene without UN resolution if it believes it interests/security would be affected if it did not. This is of course not viewed as “legitimate” as a UNSC resolution but still “legal”.
Second, early moves to support and assist successful democratic movements will help to stabilise the states and enhance regional security, and in doing so ours. This will be best done by trade/aid via EU and the Union of the Mediterranean agreements – possibly an Islamic “Marshall Plan”? Certainly spending our aid money for this makes more sense than say subsidising Indian nuclear weapons.
If military force is required in the recently “freed” states it would probably be more a security and stabilisation force, both on Land and coastal – ideal job for a Forward Presence Squadron.
Talking of which, I’ve said it before and I’ll probably say it again – MSO, ASW, NEO; all could benefit from a enlarged San Giorgio type vessel (with 6? CSAR Merlin’s?).
If we had bought 2nd hand near new cheap airliners after 9/11, then the RAF would be able to meet these transport emergencies. Sadly Gordon insisted on an expensive, poorly thought out PFI. Still not in service.
A 2nd hand RJ100 with saddle tanks & re engined with RJX AS977, would be a good corporate hack for HMG (5 abreast seating, 33″ pitch) & able to be sent on rescue runs.
Brits in Libya were just doing what Tony Blair told them to do.
My fantasy is for a slightly stretched batch 2 T45 with 3 Merlins(1 ASW, 2 CSAR). Would be handy for helicoptering out trapped Brits in the desert.
Hi all,
Is it just me and my young age or does history seam to be repeating itself? I’m not saying that the use of destryers/firgates and typhoons maybe the best solution to this problem, no that we have many to spare for a problem like this anyway. However surely this might be a good time to have a frigate or distroyer permanantly stationed back in the Med? Have to agree with Gareth that a forward presence squadron under the guise of the mediterranean squadron would be very useful.
30ish years ago (1979-1982) labour screwed up, torys in, make lots of cuts, decide to cut the navy, navy is then needed and spared. (2010-?) labour screwed up (again), torys in, make lots of cuts, decide to cut the navy, navy is then needed. Hopefully the politicians may learn and save the navy again, but somehow i doubt it.
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Sir Winston Churchill
It apears we (this government) already have^
Could be a good operation to use the JHSV ship the US have.
Nick clegg comments for someone in such a position you would like to hope he was joking however I fear he was not,he is to quote macbeth a poor player that frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more.
There is a massive Naval presence in or near Libya but the people who have done best are the Chinese using ferries only and the Turks using ferries but escorted.
Mark,
Enterprise had indeed outchopped from 5th to 6th fleet but has spent all day racing up the Red Sea in company with Leyte Gulf at 29kts.
TD
The US are pushing for a no fly zone yet despite the numerous available bases are rushing a carrier back to the scene. They obviously understand the flexibility of carrier aviation realising that Enerprise can cover the 2000 miles to be on station quicker than they can redeploy fighter aircraft and the required support elements to an avaialable base get themselves sorted out and start flying missions. The beauty of a Carrier is that the minute its in range it is on task. No waiting for the required support elements to deploy and set up at an unfamiliar airfield.
Correction to my last Enterprise of course outchopped from 6th to 5th Fleet
I read here people suggesting to police Libya’s sky from Malta, Spain and Italy.
Men, can i ask you all to take a map and tell me how the hell Spain can be of help in policing Libya’s sky…? The fighter jets can not reach Libya and fly CAPs over it from Spain. They have no range for such a feat.
Italy: the fighters can take off from Sigonella air base in Sicily, but that’s pretty much it. AWACS and tankers, thanks to their greater range, could take off from another base, up north in Italy and then operate over the sea, in areas where surface warships can keep a protection over them from below.
And Malta. What can Malta truly offer in terms of runways and bases??? I suspect very little could be based off Malta. And it is all to be seen what kind of political support Malta would give to the operation.
Even with their obvious limits, the Harriers flying from Ark Royal were going to be the first and most effective thing the UK could have offered to the operation… Maybe, a bunch of Typhoons could be based in Sigonella, but that would be it. Most likely, an AWACS could also be put at work, while air tankers are bloody busy with Afghanistan and it would be a problem to have even one re-targeted on a new commitment.
Truth is: there’s not “plenty of bases” in the area. Not useful bases, at least. The main hub of operations will be Sigonella.
NATO might have to ask Algeria and Tunisia to give a base, too, if the air policing on Libya is to become a reality… And of course, a US Navy carrier will do most of the work. Geography and political instability (Algeria is still unsane, Tunisia might not want to expose itself at all, Egypt as we know has its own troubles and so along) dictate it, simple like that.
HMS York was indeed going to the Falklands, so now the islands are left without a destroyer guarding them, potentially for months.
As to the plan to bring foreign workers out of the desert… well. The best platform would be, no doubt, Ocean and Illustrious. But Illustrious is not available, still coming out of refit, and Ark Royal… well, we know. HMS Ocean, loaded with helos, could do great in inserting SAS and estracting people to safety. Argus might also do the work real well, if given a couple of Chinooks.
Libya might still be a blessing for the UK armed forces: it comes probably just in time to make it so much harder for the government to enforce more cuts over those already made.
This crisis might save the Armed Forces from the slaughter that PR11 was going to be otherwise.
What is “surprising” is that so many, from me to others, which have never been politicians, had seen this coming, while the people who should be the most ready to this kind of things are always caught with their pants down…
Say what you want, but the SDSR already looks truly screwed up. It did from the very first moment, but now even who said no has to admit it.
@ Mark – JHSV appears to be a useful vessel, essentially a rather fast floating box which can be swinged between roles via equipment modules (aka ISO containers TD!). Certainly not a full warship (original design was a car/pax ferry) but would be near ideal for this situation – quick runs to Malta to connect with flights then nip back for some more tax dodgers, I mean glorious British citizens… ;p
@ APATS – Agree about the flexibility and self-contained nature of carriers. Stovl aircraft might have the edge over conventional aircraft in basing options but still require extensive support.
“Yeah, I suppose I am. I forgot about that. I’m holding the fort but I’m hoping to take the end of the week off with my kids. Someone else will have to do it then”
TD; where is your source for that quote??
That seem too blatently stupid to be an actual quote from the Vice PM, where’s your source?
My take on it is similar to TD’s; and I hate all the pressure on the FOC; its the heads of the deperatments and the government which has slowly strangled the FCO just as much as the MoD,not the men and women on the ground!
As with possible involvement… past us using forces to get oil workers out of the desert I see no need for the UK to get involved, if NATO had to do something then the other nations can do perfectly well; Spain and Italy with forces trained in similar terraign and with a Navy with Harriers more capable at CAP than the Gr9 ever was or would be, Greeks and Turks are closer too…all better logistics wise too.
If this was to kick off, I would think the UK would do well to either stay out altogether or stay second line with this game…at most use specical forces.
Sadly, we simply havent the numbers, equipment and money for such excurions!
mike, take your pick
http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=nick+clegg+forgot
I find myself in Gareth’s situation, more or less (relatives, of both blood and affection, on my six) but wanted to drop a link from the enjoyable and invaluable Globalsecurity.org online library, this is a recent addition of “the book” on NEOs for the Yanks’ naval and marine branches:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/dod/jp3_07_5.pdf
Clegg should be de-bagged and radished for, well, so many reasons, but breach of contract on the whole “Deputy Prime Minister” bit comes to mind.
Right, ducked back to the laptop long enough (sad bastard that I am …) to say, re Callum @ 4:38 and Gareth @ 6-something (regional intervention or no?), a firm Yup to both. Thing about old Charlie is, like many a Liberal politician before him (Roseberry and Asquith come to mind) he showed up to work even when snockered because it mattered to him.
TD,
God bless for Harry Enfield’s Scousers. I’m of exactly the right age that I can’t count the number of walks downhill to the local that involved shouting “Calm down! Calm down!” like a Liverpudlian ….
APATS @ 8:22,
This. In big pointy letters. (Wife and kids are fielding the company. But must return soon.) Even here, right on NATO’s doorstep, if you want to talk about “friendly regional air bases” you are essentially talking about the Marina Militare, USS Enterprise, and an “unsinkable aircraft carrier” named Sicily. None of the Maghribi nations (not Tunisia, certainly not Algeria or Egypt) want any part of this until they have a better idea of how it will sort out. Likewise France and Spain when it comes to it. This is not because of some kind of “Latin cowardice” (not that TD or others here would suggest it, but you’ll get a letter or two in the Torygraph), but because France and Spain know that Algeria and Morocco are watching their reaction to the Libyan crisis like hawks, in case the Cairo Flu should spread to places like Algiers or Marrakech. So it’s down to the Italians (who are up to the job these days, and do not have an excessive presence on Operation Useless Dirt) and a belated American reaction. Malta, at the moment, doesn’t have enough up-to-speed facilities that aren’t handling lots of commercial traffic to react quickly, and other Italian bases are far enough away that you’re starting to “sweat assets,” so your tactical transports (American C-17s in Tripoli is “bad optics” for locals who remember their navy shamed and civilians dead in 1986) will need both tankers and frequent engine work. So, depending on how crazy the Old Man of Tripoli is, your worst-case scenario does actually involve supporting operations ashore with amphibious logistics or even an amphibious forced entry, and enough air cover to see off the three or four squadrons of fit planes and hard-core loyalists Gaddafi can count on in the clutch. So in preparing for the spectrum of possibilities, that’s what comes up. There are reasons why this is principally an Italian (and, in reserve, American) show. But elsewhere on the continent, if it’s not the French, guess who the “usual postcolonial suspect” would be ….
NB: by Malta “reacting quickly” I mean opening up usable facilities for air operations, and major foreign powers getting those up to speed in a timely fashion.
One more hyperlink, a report from The National added to CBC News’ website, on the Canadian experience so far:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/02/25/libya-canadians.html
I wonder if they gave those evacuee in the C130s ear defenders…….
It seems “special forces” have gone into rescue the oil workers from the desert camps.
x,
They’ll never look at a Ryanair flight quite the same way
All things considered, if one was sending underwater knife ninjas to pick up the roughnecks and their bosses, better just to drop a few small bits of SRR near the work sites to watch out for Gaddafi’s hired goons, then if the coast’s clear just let the RAF land and Crab Airways can sort them out. Waste of resources and pointless willy-waving to do more. (Speaking of the SRR for a moment, creating an outfit like that out of whole cloth in peacetime seems a little un-British. I know the connection to 14 Company, but why not a Long Range Surveillance Group in honour of Stirling’s old bedfellows, or reactivating a full-time component of the Honourable Artillery Company, whose actual squaddies are no more gunners these days than the SAS pass out mixed nuts on your holiday flight. Just saying.) Really MoD should just put in a call to Sinn Fein’s main office and ask where the best places to hide in the Libyan desert are, then pick up the evacuees from there ….
NB: I don’t mean having an LRS force, that’s sensible, but making up regimental history on the back of a fag packet when there’s so much to choose from already. One of the benefits of an old country.
I did see on sky this morning (ino not the most reliable of sources) that ac130 gunships were in support along with spy planes. I wonder if the R1 also got her final hurrah before disbandment.
Protests have now also reached oman which could have more far reaching implications for the UK.
Mark,
Yes, that would (Armilla’s always made more sense in support of Oman and Masirah, which could be Gibraltar East functionally and should never have gone so cheap to the Yanks.) Qaboos is a smart old cove, but that’s as strategically serious as Bahrain is for the US.
Perhaps all the strategising about evacuating Brits from Dubai might turn out to be less daft than it looks.
I’m not holding out too much hope, though.
MOD video of Cumberland alongside in Benghazi. Spot the hackle.
News in of a second round of taxi services for oil worker ex-pats in the country, 3 hercs this time round. The light blue and dark blue must be grateful for the timing of this episode; both the ships and aircraft involved are slated for early retirement.
@ jackstaff
From what I understand if RyanAir was supplying the aeroplanes for the evacuation the RV for the evacuees would be Gatwick….
You all know I despise inter service politics but the loudest voices have been those bemoaning the loss of naval capabilities, using Libya as an example. How many have the RAF extracted, how many have civilian charters lifted and how many have the RN lifted.
Is that a tumbleweed I see
ze Germans are getting in on the whole underwater knife fighting, derring do, swooping into desert airfield thang
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/8318097-german-paratroopers-rescue-133-nationals-and-eu-citizens-from-libyan-hell
Who’s spy planes were involved in the extraction?
TD,
True — if you want to go in fast and you either 1) have a friendly army nearby to reinforce or 2) face minimal resistance, quick airborne response is the way to go. Interestingly, if you need actual boots on the ground to make it stick, they’re usually not Rock Apes (for my own part, I’m as much an Army fan as an RN one, but whether you’re talking about 1300-1600 (and delusions into the 1660s) or 1945-present, disproportionate continental power has never been a good deal for Britain’s body politic. Encourages feckless feudalism, among other things, military the first time and financial the second, but that’s another rant.) Interesting that a hobbled RAF has been whittling away at that capability (letting the prospective mid-range transpo get halved and not buying in enough on C-17.) If you had enough determined mercs with manpads that would have been a very different equation, or required what the US calls a “Strategic Brigade Airdrop” by its 82nd Airborne, or the 173rd Bde out of Italy. Manpower on the ground delivered by the only air component that can surge that many at once.
Depends on what you want to do, always. But the higher risks, and more *flexible* responses, are in the categories of civil defence (chartered flights/ships) or maritime based. (Note I said “based.” First meaning “not exclusive,” and second “as a base of operations.”) If the Mad Old Man of Tripoli winks at confused mercs rounding up and killing foreigners in his city-state, or deliberately threatens same, you can 1) bomb them ineffectively, 2) drop paras/SF into a trap or *really* make then vulnerable by using helos (much less quick and less disorienting, actually, if you do a massed drop with air support that wont be RAF because they can only manage a squadron-ish of Tornados for the Stan), 3) wait four to six weeks and make lots of unsavoury deals with political chancers in Tunisia to roll in an armoured division or two (which will arrive by sea, btw, even if that doesnt take cocktail parties on carriers its still the maritime dimension, takes much longer by air and nearly as long to deliver a formation like the US’ 101st Air Assault Division with its two hundred helicopters and logistics tail), or you can 4) kick the damn door in at Tripoli harbour, find the old coot and Hafizullah Amin him, and start sequestering/evac’ing people to keep them from the chop while persuading the mercs that life is a nice paycheck.
Just sayin’.
PS: I’m actually a fan of airborne (and I mean paras and the planes that fly them, or marines’ “vertical envelopment”) NEOs as an operational sub-specialty, and would actually enjoy writing a little about the species. But it’s important to remember their limitations, too.
TD,
Also I’m a fan of the modern Fallschirmjagers, they’re a squared-away model of the paratrooper art, but I hate all these “daring rescue” headlines ref: the current troubles. It gives no credit to the fact it’s a *good* thing these pull-outs have been swift and quiet (a huge goal for “semi-permissive” NEOs) and shorts the times measures have been more desperate. (Like the German paras’ own, unadvertised — “Shh ! Don’t mention ze Var!” — fighting withdrawal of scared foreigners, against armoured cars no less, in Albania in ’97.)
NB: Should have said “managing higher risks” in that first post, ie de-risking the chaos that often accompanies a need to evacuate.
“It was 2,200 yeas later when sea power reached its full potential. Then, in the battle of Normandy, the Allied powers, using hundreds of seacraft of all types, invaded the Continent of Europe. The sea was used to its fullest. It is significant, however, that part of the invading forces were transported by AIR. It was significant because that battle saw sea power at its peak. AIR power was just beginning. And this is the critical point that we have arrived at, and this is the competition we are in. This media that envelops us we must use. We must imagine, design, and develop the means and methods of using it. We must–if our people and our institutions are to survive. For the people with their institutions who best learn how to use this media will survive in this highly competitive world.
AIR power is now the decisive element in modern war. And by AIR power is meant every contribution to waging war that man has created and that can be flown. Men, weapons, ammunition, food, bombs, missiles, and all that it will take to fight a future war must FLY. Clearly, therefore, in the development of our AIR power and Airborne potential changes must be made in our ground force equipment as well as in our Air Force equipment.
…The conventional type steel and cast iron earth-bound tank cannot in its present form win the battle with air-transported shaped-charge weapons. In its present form it is as exctinct as the elephants of Zama and the heavily armed knights of Agincourt. The entire Airborne-armored problem must be viewed in the light of the capabilities of modern shaped-charge [RPGs] and rocket weapons. The same is true of our communications equipment, tracks, reconnaissance vehicles, artillery, food, and in fact, everything must be flown.
Organizations created to fight the last war better are not going to win the next. Nor is building an airplane around the ground weapons that won the last war an assurance that we will win the next. Keeping foremost in our minds the functional purposes of our means of ground combat, these means must be developed and produced so that they can be delivered to the battlefield in sufficient quantity to gain the decision. Not only must our airplanes, ‘chutes, ..be developed but our ground fighting weapons and equipment as well. Only thus, will we attain a position of dominance in Airborne Warfare.
The nation that in the future has the best trained and equipped Airborne Forces has the best chance of survival. Indeed, more than this, only by having such security forces can any nation survive. For as long as these means of waging modern war are available to us, they are available to aggressor nations. And modern Airborne Forces of aggressor nations cannot be fought successfully with the weapons that fought past wars. Not if they are to be engaged at parity and beaten.
Airborne troops are our best national security and the world’s most promising hope for international security.
The knowledge of the existence of a well trained Airborne Army, capable of moving anywhere on the globe on short notice, available to an international security body such as the United Nations, is our best guarantee of lasting peace. And the nation or nations that control the AIR control the peace.”
General James M. Gavin, Airborne Warfare, 1947(?)
TD said: “Is that a tumbleweed I see
”
See all above from Jackstaff, but if I say
“well it would be different if there had been opposition, i.e. air defence”-
will you then use that as an argument as to why the RAF really, really, really needs F35′s for “first day of the war stealth suppression of enemy air defences” ? Or perhaps an A400M based ‘gunship’ or IFR capable CH53K ??
Your being a little disingenuous, you know better than that…
Yes, guilty as charged, was being a little mischievous!
However, you cannot deny there is a ground swell of anti RAF sentiment ‘around the place’ at the minute that largely relies on the usual suspects, yesterdays men and a group of academics who quite frankly haven’t got a clue about modern joint operations, the reality of current threats or any argument beyond we are an island you know.
I have consistently advocated a stronger approach to defence diplomacy and mentoring etc, as seen in the RN series. It gets results out of all proportion to the resources but that does not mean those cocktail parties need to happen on board a 65,000 white elephant.
All I am trying to do is redress the balance and I think you all know I try and walk the middle line as much as I can.
You don’t see letters to the Telegraph from retired air marshalls do you, despite the RAF probably coming out of the SDSR worse than any of the other services. They have better discipline amongst their own retirees it would seem because the RN crowd are doing their service more harm than good I feel and it is beginning to look like special pleading