Think Defence hopes to start sensible conversations about UK defence issues, no agenda or no campaign but there might be one or two posts on containers, bridges and mexeflotes!
108 thoughts on “Open Thread – Humour and History I”
Peter Elliott
@TD
I came across the following quotation recently:
“We are entangled in a labyrinth of which no end is to be seen, and in which no certain path has been discovered; that we are pursuing schemes which are in no degree necessary to the prosperity of our country, by means that are apparently contrary to law, to policy, and to justice; and that we are employed in a foreign quarrel only to waste that blood, and exhaust that treasure, which might be employed in recovering the rights of commerce, and regaining the dominion of the sea.”
What startlingly modern stuff. Was it written by a left wing journalist about Afghanistan and Iraq? Or perhaps by one of those ‘dark blue’ web commentators who polarise the debate so enthusiastically?
No. It is of course a quotation from around 1740 and is attributed to a young opposition politician: Lord Sandwich was making a noise in parliament to try and get his name recognised at the very beginning of his political career.
Well, the inconvience of G4S’s failure at least wasn’t so for the Welsh Cavalry ;D
I was sent there prior to the opening ceremony, quite a place the ‘park.
A man who explained the human aspect of warfare. I found his writing an essential antidote to the equipment based ‘top trumps’ you find so much of.
Peter Elliott
Just caught up on David Starkey’s recent series on Sir Winston Churchill & John Churchill Duke of Marlborough.
Very interesting stuff but the part that really chimed was right at the end when he pointed out that from 1945 – 1989 we were essentially following a grand strategy that Sir W Churchill set out in his ‘iron curtain’ speach. Since then, Starkey said, we have been ‘groping’.
This fits in with a lot of the discourse on this site about a lack of Grand Strategy for the UK since the end of the Cold War.
One of the clever things Sir W did was coin the vocabulary to describe his big ideas. Any suggestions of catchy names for the challeneges of global security today? ‘War on Terror’ is pretty tarnished these days. ‘New World Order’ didn’t go so well either.
@ Jonesy – Ha! Laughed out loud and woke my fiance…
Peter Elliott
‘Transition’ only works if it gives some sense of what we are transitioning to.
Starkey pointed out that any period of rapid dis-armament has usually been followed by a big, nasty, unexpected war. This is worrying. The trend of our current policy could therefore be branded: ‘Transition to Weakness’
The fluffy liberal view would be that we are on the way to universal world peace: ‘Transition to a secure world’
My own view is probably somewhere in between along the lines of ‘Expect the Unexpected’ or ‘Transition to Chaos’. As such having more agile, balanced forces optimimesed for small to medium sized expeditions is great. Cutting logistics and support is not so clever.
Swimming Trunks
@ Peter – ” ‘Transition’ only works if it gives some sense of what we are transitioning to.” Ah, thats the question isn’t. I have a few fluffy liberal view videos about IR; I’ll post them later…
Alex
Very interesting stuff but the part that really chimed was right at the end when he pointed out that from 1945 – 1989 we were essentially following a grand strategy that Sir W Churchill set out in his ‘iron curtain’ speach.
WSC himself thought he was following a wider grand strategy that had been in operation since Elizabeth I – that the UK (as it wasn’t) would fight to prevent any single hostile power controlling the Low Countries and therefore threatening to dominate the Narrow Seas.
Cold war thinking from our PoV fits that pretty well – BAOR and 2 TAF were lined up to defend, yes, the north German river lines..
Swimming Trunks
Those videos I promised – I warn you two are very long…
As this is the 15th of September thought this was a gd video
Topman
Nice video mark especially for today. Bringing that video up reminds me; BBMF are (hopefully) getting a Mosquito in around 18 months time, by all accounts they are removing a Spitfire from the flight for it.
Ghana has been warned if the frigate stays there for more than 2 months the Argentines will claim Ghana as Argentine territory.
wf
@x: that is delicious. Perhaps next time Cristina visits the UN we could arrange to have her impounded because her boobs could be resold?
x
@ wf
What a thought for nearly-tea-time-o’clock…
The Other Chris
Sounds like aggressive old fashioned gunboat diplomacy colonialism to me.
x
More like Pirates of the Caribbean……
Brian Black
That’s an attractive looking ship; would look even better flying British colours.
It’s a US investment company that got the court order, but I’m assuming they’d auction it. I hope so much it ends up in British hands, it would annoy Kirchner so much. I think her tiny mind would explode if ever a royal set foot on board too.
x
@ Brian
There is some British involvement in the ship being arrested.
Not many know but the UK has an Admiralty Court. One of the areas it deals with is mortgage disputes.
Brian Black
It would make a great addition to any of the sail training charities we have in this country, x. I hope there’s some private money around to pick it up.
A drop in the ocean for all Argentina’s creditors though, but a significant signal nonetheless.
@X – Only 6 destroyers y’see, original plan called for 12
x
@ Wise Ape
I just hope that the article is read at Sandhurst. And it puts a kibosh on the Household Cavalry desire for a version of FRES with legs.
jackstaff
@x,
That first comment in the Hoth thread is perhaps the greatest milblog comment of all time. And how often have we read that, or something like it, here and elsewhere?
@Wiseape ref: destroyers,
Yep. But if even Palpatine, an actually competent evil overlord (in the prequels anyway, which is God knows not saying a lot), can’t manage the Death Star-sized hole in Core budget then how on earth will Dave and Ozzy?
x
@ Jackstaff
It is good isn’t it? I had to check I hadn’t written it myself.
Simon
x,
Excellent link.
JordanViray,
Even more excellent response.
Simon
WiseApe,
At least those “destroyers” have an offensive capability
WiseApe
Harking back to an earlier age when mighty fleets clashed unencumbered by the need to ferry infantry about:
Wonder how many billion quid it would take BAE Shipbuilding to knock up a couple or three of those? In my mind’s eye I can see Sir John Hawkins sitting in front of it drinking a Buck’s Fizz.
Also, am I missing something or have we left a rich vein of humour gravely unattended since the junior service consolidated their repair shop at RAF Wittering? I thought that was a job description rather than a location….
x
@ Jackstaff re Wittering
I was taught it was rude to laugh at the things others’ hold in religious reverence.
Just because their view of the world is off we shouldn’t point and laugh.
In a past life, when I taught a bit of World History, I used to put up up an older version of that map first day of the second (modern) half of the class, and say, “why does that map look wrong to you? Think a minute about how big the universe is, about Einstein and relativity and observer bias and all that. How do we know which way is up? Because this lot (waves laser pointer over projection screen or hand over overhead projector, depending on how posh the classroom’s A/V was) won and drew the maps.”
Brian Black
And the prize for the most ironic department title is awarded to… “The Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea”, which recently released this gem.
“It is the steadfast determination and unshakable faith of the army and people of the DPRK led by the illustrious commander of Mt. Paektu not to allow the hostile forces to infringe upon the sovereignty and dignity of the country but decisively and mercilessly wipe them out.
The DPRK abrogates all agreements on nonaggression reached between the north and the south. Therefore, the DPRK officially declares that from the moment the Korean Armistice Agreement is made totally invalid on March 11 all the said agreements will be completely nullified.
The hostile forces should clearly know that our just option is by no means a mere threat but is an expression of the fixed will of our army and people to annihilate the enemy.
All the service personnel and people of the DPRK will turn out as one and mercilessly wipe out the aggressors and provocateurs with the tremendous might of Songun they have consolidated, and build a reunified, prosperous and best powerful country on the land of three thousand-ri without fail.”
Pyongyang, March 8 (KCNA) [ABRIDGED BY BRIAN] — The Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea (CPRK)
WiseApe
That Ringtail Badger commentator should be ashamed of himself.
An Air Council came into being on 2 January 1918 and the foundation of the RAF took effect on 1 April 1918 when the Royal Flying Corps and the Royal Naval Air Service were absorbed into its structure. Thus, the RAF became the first truly independent air force of any major power free to fully develop all the applications of aerial warfare.
@TD
I came across the following quotation recently:
“We are entangled in a labyrinth of which no end is to be seen, and in which no certain path has been discovered; that we are pursuing schemes which are in no degree necessary to the prosperity of our country, by means that are apparently contrary to law, to policy, and to justice; and that we are employed in a foreign quarrel only to waste that blood, and exhaust that treasure, which might be employed in recovering the rights of commerce, and regaining the dominion of the sea.”
What startlingly modern stuff. Was it written by a left wing journalist about Afghanistan and Iraq? Or perhaps by one of those ‘dark blue’ web commentators who polarise the debate so enthusiastically?
No. It is of course a quotation from around 1740 and is attributed to a young opposition politician: Lord Sandwich was making a noise in parliament to try and get his name recognised at the very beginning of his political career.
Nothing new under then sun.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18958444
Well, the inconvience of G4S’s failure at least wasn’t so for the Welsh Cavalry ;D
I was sent there prior to the opening ceremony, quite a place the ‘park.
Death of Sir John Keegan
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19115395
A man who explained the human aspect of warfare. I found his writing an essential antidote to the equipment based ‘top trumps’ you find so much of.
Just caught up on David Starkey’s recent series on Sir Winston Churchill & John Churchill Duke of Marlborough.
Very interesting stuff but the part that really chimed was right at the end when he pointed out that from 1945 – 1989 we were essentially following a grand strategy that Sir W Churchill set out in his ‘iron curtain’ speach. Since then, Starkey said, we have been ‘groping’.
This fits in with a lot of the discourse on this site about a lack of Grand Strategy for the UK since the end of the Cold War.
One of the clever things Sir W did was coin the vocabulary to describe his big ideas. Any suggestions of catchy names for the challeneges of global security today? ‘War on Terror’ is pretty tarnished these days. ‘New World Order’ didn’t go so well either.
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/6540/securityk.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5181/acucouch.jpg
@ Peter – the transition?
@ Jonesy – Ha! Laughed out loud and woke my fiance…
‘Transition’ only works if it gives some sense of what we are transitioning to.
Starkey pointed out that any period of rapid dis-armament has usually been followed by a big, nasty, unexpected war. This is worrying. The trend of our current policy could therefore be branded: ‘Transition to Weakness’
The fluffy liberal view would be that we are on the way to universal world peace: ‘Transition to a secure world’
My own view is probably somewhere in between along the lines of ‘Expect the Unexpected’ or ‘Transition to Chaos’. As such having more agile, balanced forces optimimesed for small to medium sized expeditions is great. Cutting logistics and support is not so clever.
@ Peter – ” ‘Transition’ only works if it gives some sense of what we are transitioning to.” Ah, thats the question isn’t. I have a few fluffy liberal view videos about IR; I’ll post them later…
Very interesting stuff but the part that really chimed was right at the end when he pointed out that from 1945 – 1989 we were essentially following a grand strategy that Sir W Churchill set out in his ‘iron curtain’ speach.
WSC himself thought he was following a wider grand strategy that had been in operation since Elizabeth I – that the UK (as it wasn’t) would fight to prevent any single hostile power controlling the Low Countries and therefore threatening to dominate the Narrow Seas.
Cold war thinking from our PoV fits that pretty well – BAOR and 2 TAF were lined up to defend, yes, the north German river lines..
Those videos I promised – I warn you two are very long…
Barry Buzan, English School theorist:
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8jVXh6b0ofM&v=8jVXh6b0ofM&gl=GB
Thomas Barnett:
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=hg7pZi6peD4
Paddy Ashdown:
http://blog.ted.com/2012/01/05/the-global-power-shift-paddy-ashdown-on-ted-com/
@ Swimming Trunks
Paddy Ashdown? Really?
Whats wrong with Paddy?
As this is the 15th of September thought this was a gd video
Nice video mark especially for today. Bringing that video up reminds me; BBMF are (hopefully) getting a Mosquito in around 18 months time, by all accounts they are removing a Spitfire from the flight for it.
Argentina in South Atlantic naval dispute,
http://www.brecorder.com/world/south-america/83481-ghana-holds-argentine-frigate-over-debt-buenos-aires-.html
Ghana has been warned if the frigate stays there for more than 2 months the Argentines will claim Ghana as Argentine territory.
@x: that is delicious. Perhaps next time Cristina visits the UN we could arrange to have her impounded because her boobs could be resold?
@ wf
What a thought for nearly-tea-time-o’clock…
Sounds like aggressive old fashioned gunboat diplomacy colonialism to me.
More like Pirates of the Caribbean……
That’s an attractive looking ship; would look even better flying British colours.
It’s a US investment company that got the court order, but I’m assuming they’d auction it. I hope so much it ends up in British hands, it would annoy Kirchner so much. I think her tiny mind would explode if ever a royal set foot on board too.
@ Brian
There is some British involvement in the ship being arrested.
Not many know but the UK has an Admiralty Court. One of the areas it deals with is mortgage disputes.
It would make a great addition to any of the sail training charities we have in this country, x. I hope there’s some private money around to pick it up.
A drop in the ocean for all Argentina’s creditors though, but a significant signal nonetheless.
A funny post on Arrse……..
http://www.arrse.co.uk/current-affairs-news-analysis/188778-have-snp-any-shame-5.html#post4666087
Have I mentioned the barstewards are doing for my county’s regiment?
Evacuate evacuate evacuate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JApOngdVYek
There is a serious side to this but still amusing
XH558 will fly for the last time in 2013 – just too many things need doing to her, see
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/uploads/documents/EoFA4-FAQ-Web.pdf
(read page 2 first)
The Chinese need to get out more:
http://www.ministryoftofu.com/2012/11/aircraft-carrier-style-chinese-netizens-celebrate-landing-of-carrier-based-fighter-with-funny-looking-pose/
What is it with Death Stars? Battlestars I tell you:
http://defensetech.org/2012/12/13/25k-sign-petition-to-build-death-star/#more-19031
Check out the video link posted by NutLoose. Surely the answer to any SVRL worries.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/221116-future-carrier-including-costs-166.html#post7607870
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away….
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/02/battle-of-hoth/
@X – Only 6 destroyers y’see, original plan called for 12
@ Wise Ape
I just hope that the article is read at Sandhurst. And it puts a kibosh on the Household Cavalry desire for a version of FRES with legs.
@x,
That first comment in the Hoth thread is perhaps the greatest milblog comment of all time. And how often have we read that, or something like it, here and elsewhere?
@Wiseape ref: destroyers,
Yep. But if even Palpatine, an actually competent evil overlord (in the prequels anyway, which is God knows not saying a lot), can’t manage the Death Star-sized hole in Core budget then how on earth will Dave and Ozzy?
@ Jackstaff
It is good isn’t it? I had to check I hadn’t written it myself.
x,
Excellent link.
JordanViray,
Even more excellent response.
WiseApe,
At least those “destroyers” have an offensive capability
Harking back to an earlier age when mighty fleets clashed unencumbered by the need to ferry infantry about:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Hoth_%28Great_Galactic_War%29
The Army’s new recruitment Ad!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TlVqz3Mq1CY
http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/18/3993100/romancing-the-drone-how-flying-robots-are-invading-pop-culture
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02485/galleon_2485755k.jpg
x,
Wonder how many billion quid it would take BAE Shipbuilding to knock up a couple or three of those? In my mind’s eye I can see Sir John Hawkins sitting in front of it drinking a Buck’s Fizz.
Also, am I missing something or have we left a rich vein of humour gravely unattended since the junior service consolidated their repair shop at RAF Wittering? I thought that was a job description rather than a location….
@ Jackstaff re Wittering
I was taught it was rude to laugh at the things others’ hold in religious reverence.
Just because their view of the world is off we shouldn’t point and laugh.
http://bowsprite.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/upside-down-world-map-from-southern-hemisphere.jpg
In a past life, when I taught a bit of World History, I used to put up up an older version of that map first day of the second (modern) half of the class, and say, “why does that map look wrong to you? Think a minute about how big the universe is, about Einstein and relativity and observer bias and all that. How do we know which way is up? Because this lot (waves laser pointer over projection screen or hand over overhead projector, depending on how posh the classroom’s A/V was) won and drew the maps.”
And the prize for the most ironic department title is awarded to… “The Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea”, which recently released this gem.
“It is the steadfast determination and unshakable faith of the army and people of the DPRK led by the illustrious commander of Mt. Paektu not to allow the hostile forces to infringe upon the sovereignty and dignity of the country but decisively and mercilessly wipe them out.
The DPRK abrogates all agreements on nonaggression reached between the north and the south. Therefore, the DPRK officially declares that from the moment the Korean Armistice Agreement is made totally invalid on March 11 all the said agreements will be completely nullified.
The hostile forces should clearly know that our just option is by no means a mere threat but is an expression of the fixed will of our army and people to annihilate the enemy.
All the service personnel and people of the DPRK will turn out as one and mercilessly wipe out the aggressors and provocateurs with the tremendous might of Songun they have consolidated, and build a reunified, prosperous and best powerful country on the land of three thousand-ri without fail.”
Pyongyang, March 8 (KCNA) [ABRIDGED BY BRIAN] — The Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea (CPRK)
That Ringtail Badger commentator should be ashamed of himself.
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2013/03/friday-fun-an-egg-xtra-special.html
Russia’s Arctic ambition knows no bounds:
http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130316/180055377/Russian-Fundamentalists-Sue-US-Want-Alaska-Back.html
An Air Council came into being on 2 January 1918 and the foundation of the RAF took effect on 1 April 1918 when the Royal Flying Corps and the Royal Naval Air Service were absorbed into its structure. Thus, the RAF became the first truly independent air force of any major power free to fully develop all the applications of aerial warfare.
http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/perardua.cfm
History not humour:
http://www.fossilscience.com/research/Bronze_warship_ram_reveals_secrets.asp
http://raf-fly.blogspot.co.uk/
Well I think it’s funny.