With Challengers, it would be better able to fight for information, armored cavalry-style.

Sounds more like a “tank destroyer” or “assault gun” than a medium tank to me.

Your sensor platoon just seems to have the same kit I suggested, but perhaps more of it ? I have waxed lyrical on EW already – but accept that a minimalist Comms DF capability might fit in somewhere.

More dismounted scouts if required can be provided by recce platoons of infantry battalions (of any type) that are part of the same battle group / task force structure as the recce regiment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XooFmPUt6aA&playnext_from=TL&videos=iA31sBK1Q2E

Four vehicles per plt means two sections of two, so there is always one scouting and one wingman providing cover. The Scout could carry the 40mm plus mast-mounted LRAS/EO/Radar, and the wingman could carry something heavier, such as ATGWs, or perhaps be the CV90-120T.

Stingers are needed, as the Recce Rgt/Sqn is networked, so higher echelons (Bde/Div) can provide early warning, alerting Stinger teams fairly early. Each two-vehicle section would carry one Stinger gunner, this combined with the vehicle’s 40mm ‘slew to cue’ capability provides a good LLADS ability.

The ADA version is a must have; we have UAVs, and so will any Opfor.
Also, the 40mm is large enough for airburst munitions, and that in turn could turn it into a potential mobile C-RAM system (counter rocket/arty/mortar). This will require a specialized radar and new software integration, but those are already available “off the shelf”, vehicle integration is the main hurdle.

Forget about AMOS, take the single barrel NEMO as alternative. Longer barrel too which means more accurate with ‘dumb’ rounds.

Your Rgt is still too light on other sensors IMHO; it’s a “binoc rgt”. I would include AT LEAST an ISTAR company, of at least 60 men.

ISTAR Co (60);
Co HQ (7), UAV Plt (22; 4 TUAV), Sensor Plt (24), NBCR Plt (6; 2 NBC veh)

Very short range ‘throw’ UAVs are nice, you need a larger Tactical variant which can carry larger (heavier), stabilized EO/IR surveillance equipment, can act as a comms relay or can even carry a radar for all-weather surveillance/foliage penetration.

The Sensor plt would include MSTAR radar, SIGINT/COMINT kit and even an EW/ECR jammer.

More dismounted scouts are required, at least one plt per company.

Nothing beats the Mark One eyeball combined with a human brain.

Cheers.

On top of that, the role of Formation Recce is more than just go and have a look at things. You’ve got to be able to stop the enemy recce forces having a peek at your disposition or fight through their counter recce screen to locate their main force.

I think that a troop of scout cars per squadron, possibly switching to a 4 x 3 vehicle structure (3×3 FRES scout and 1×3 Scout cars) would provide the close-in ground-based recce element. With the right scout car, you could carry some engineers and dismounted scouts around as well. The problem in this arrangement might be that the wheeled cars might get left behind crossing bad terrain.
Perhaps an interim idea would be to use light tracks (Spare Spartan or Stormers, if there are such things) with a RWS and improved electro-optics as the close recce vehicles. A future development would be to use SEP or something similar with a hybrid drive

About the logistics point that was raised by Sven this is the main reason I like the BAE SEP as it would allow you to lower fuel consumption alongside noise increasing endurance and stealth ideal for recce. The Fennek is something that is a true recce vehicle hands down as it has a decent endurance and can stay out and about without resupply for 5 days I think? Not bad for a reasonable sized vehicle. Maybe in the near future we could end up with a hybrid version of the Fennek with even better endurance and stealth.

Anyhow in the wider scheme of things could we not just rely upon UAV’s both fixed and rotary wing alongside a decent fleet of Fennek scout vehicles, the UAV’s provide over watch and guide the Fenneks. Anything that needs checked on the ground a couple of Fenneks could appear with the required people to check a bridges condition or investigate something a UAV has seen from the air. The way I see it is in future there are going to be at least a couple of layers of aerial surveillance over any area which should be able to gather the majority of the information with their ever better sensors. Anything they cannot find out or if they find something and more information is needed they should be able to pass the location and current information over to recce units using Fenneks to have a closer look. It would be much cheaper and sneakier than dozens of 25+ ton armoured vehicles running around the place doing attempting to do recce when chances are they might have been spotted.

Why 120T versions for anti-tank? Wouldn’t ATGW firing from defilade be more suitable? Current organisation for FR is that the ATGW troops carry Javelin, which combines a powerful and low signature ISTAR asset with a powerful and low signature anti-tank weapon.

I like organic UAS. The small ones are probably small enough to operate out of the back of the FRES scout, which would put the capability right at the front edge, so you don’t need to get as close or move as much, both of which risk betraying your strength.

As has been noted before, UAS are increasingly used for recce roles, so there is sense for some kind of anti-air capacity, if only to act in the counter-recce role. Fore these small targets, a missile capable of hitting them (Starstreak2?) or a cannon firing rounds that are sufficiently likely to hit (AHEAD or similar shrapnel-style systems would seem logical, or a prox fuse if you can get it). Cannon and hit-to-kill missiles have an advantage in that they can be used in the ground role as well.

AMOS is overengineered, overweight, high centre of gravity, overly expensive, huge -> difficult to hide, adds maintenance requirements and all this essentially for a second barrel that adds nothing but RoF that you’re unlikely to be able to exploit in a recce outfit that’s far away from all logistical support. Its only effective advantage is that it’s overly sexy on the internet.

Take the lighter AMS or another turreted system if you insist on a low angle fire capability.

Look at CARDOM for a seriously good AFV mortar system.

Sven asked “What about SigInt (direction finding)” – I recently dealt with that in a comment on another post. Currently we keep SIGINT at a higher formation level. If DF kit that can cope with enemy having spread spectrum / frequency hopping radio kit is available in small enough package, then sure, why not.

Sven asked: “Are satellite communications/short wave radios available in command vehicles?” The BOWMAN battlefield communications system provides kit that covers lots of frequency bands and modes of operation. I don’t know what is currently in a Spartan, but I would suggest tactical SATCOM is not out of the question, alongside VHF, UHF and HF voice and data capabilities.

Sven asked: “Why do Recce Troops have four vehicles? Three is a proven composition in other armies.” I dunno, what you asking me for ? :-) Just copied the existing orbat…….

Sven asked: “The AMOS turret is impressive (and expensive), but what is the second barrel good for? ” It allows AMOS to do 26 rounds per minute, and do a 14 round “simultaneous point of impact” – rather devastating firepower to get ones forward elements out of the pooh ? I can find only one source which qoutes CV90 AMOS as carrying 90 rounds – only 3 minutes of maximum continous fire, but quite a few short sharp fire missions, and I would have a lot of those rounds as Strix, maybe LAHAT, as I noted in the article.

Sven asked: “What is the CV90 AA supposed to accomplish?” A rhetorical question I presume ? However I take your point about where it could / should be employed.

Sven said: “A LtCol in command of a force that has as many AFV as three mech infantry battalions? There are so many generals and colonels in modern armies; a Colonel should be available for such a large force.” – Yes well, take it up with the Army Board, its not my doing….. :-)

Sven said: “The fuel consumption of a CV90 fleet is roughly five times as large as for a CVR(T) fleet. The road range of a Scimitar is afaik 450 km, 320 only for a CV90. A quarter range loss? Range = endurance = ability to operate independently and without a organic fuel supply element. Was this checked in detail?” – Nope not checked at all, out of scope as far as I am concerned. Reality is FRES Scout is ASCOD (right now at least) which I am sure also has worse fuel consumption than Scimitar – but then as all alternatives are better protected = heavier = worse fuel consumption than current CVR(T) we are stuck with this dilemma whatever. Good point ref logistics non the less !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WMp6c3LTxE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnlB5mrigyA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJiLHhCqt7I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQdsUlr1674
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qln3hVoe8qA

Also can’t you get 2 rounds to arrive at the same time by changing barrel elevation, you’d need a fire conrol system and a flick loaded but its doable

Are satellite communications/short wave radios available in command vehicles? Are the command vehicles communication nodes? I ask because that would add significant risks to them and you probably wouldn’t want the CO in one of them.

Why do Recce Troops have four vehicles? Three is a proven composition in other armies.

The AMOS turret is impressive (and expensive), but what is the second barrel good for? You’ll run out of ammo very quickly even with 1/2 ammo carrier per AMOS vehicle. Recce forces are by design ahead and often separated from the main body and its supply capacity.

What is the CV90 AA supposed to accomplish? Its air defence radius is about 3, maybe 4 km (helos).
That woudn’t suffice to protect three dispersed recce troops. It could at best protect (or warn) the Sqd’s rather large support & HQ elements (if they stick with the SPAAG).
A LtCol in command of a force that has as many AFV as three mech infantry battalions? There are so many generals and colonels in modern armies; a Colonel should be available for such a large force.

The fuel consumption of a CV90 fleet is roughly five times as large as for a CVR(T) fleet. The road range of a Scimitar is afaik 450 km, 320 only for a CV90. A quarter range loss? Range = endurance = ability to operate independently and without a organic fuel supply element. Was this checked in detail?

You could then combine the 18 vehicles dedicated to AT and AA into common AT/AA Support Troops of 6 MMS vehicles (1 Troop per Recc Sqdn). Each vehicle could carry either Starstreak or ATGMs or both, as the situation dictates. If the air threat was low, you could carry more ATGMs and fewer Starstreaks.

If you decided to use an NLOS ATGM like Spike-ER here, you could get by with a lighter vehicle (lowering the Troop’s log footprint), since it could stay out of direct-fire engagements.

Plus, the powerful EO/IR sensor on the MMS turret would be a useful surveillance tool on its own.

On the battlefield, if we have air superiority, a 40mm autocannon isnt going to have anything to do, but if we dont have air superiority, whats a 40mm autocannon going to do?
If we could cheaply integrate a MANPAD onto the command tanks, it might be worth it for catching the odd one that gets through.

Just in case I wasn’t clear; this was supposed to be a hard-hitting question. An alternative TO&E makes no sense without mission & doctrine.