Comments on: The Falklands and Our Allies

By: paul g

paul g — Sun, 20 Feb 2011 19:44:00 +0000

hey luis give me a ring sometime to discuss this further, my number is oh one, do one!!

By: Luis

Luis — Sun, 20 Feb 2011 17:27:02 +0000

Think Defense, the people living there are british, thats a fact, but the lands where they are living are south american lands, not antartic nor african, thats a fact too.
Now do those british living there have southamerican identity? no they have not (they think they live in the middle of the south atlantic), becouse for all their existence they introduced citizens of the Great Britain not south american.
So the uk only manage their foreign affairs and defense, but what about judiciary? are those lawers and judges born in malvinas islands? no they’re not. What about education? is there a ministry of education on malvinas islands where education planning is on the hands of the islanders community? or is it an education imported from the Great Britain?. What about the economy? they have 8 oil companies, like 13 fishing companies where most, if not all, the money comes from the Great Britain.
So lets go to the numbers, if acording to the “falklands” census of 2006 there is only 1300 people who born in those islands and acording to the uk those have a right to selfdetermination becouse they lived there for entire generations, so do they actually practice that selfdetermination in a land where they do not even have lawers, judges, etc?

By: Think Defence

Think Defence — Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:30:34 +0000

Maiten

You are more than welcome to discuss the Falkland Islands but lets try and keep it civil and move away from the largely irrelevant subject of genetics and ancient history.

Whatever the details going back hundreds of years the fact is the people who live there now want to be part of the UK and that is that, end of story. When that changes then thats fair enough but right now in 2011 they live in a UK overseas territory with everything that this entails. Argentina should accept the will of the people who live there now and get on with it, I can 100% predict no UK politician will ever discuss sovereignty and no sabre ratting of Argentina, Venezuela or anyone else for that matter is going to change that.

By: maiten

maiten — Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:21:29 +0000

argentina population`s evolution (argentina.gov.ar population)
prehispanic: more than 20 communities diaguitas collas tehuelches guaranies,etc
hispanic period: they didn`t kill them all just because our country is very big 1,600,000km2 and they were in the most inhospited places and because they came here for the gold and silver and guess who would a spanish send to the mines? an aborigen. the poulation was conformed by mestizos (mix of indigenous and spanish) criollo (mix of spanish and spanish born in argentine) mulato (mix of black people and sth else ) gringo (spanish with spanish born in spanish)and indios (indegenous with indegenous).
nowadays you can find people like liz solari, luisana lopilato but also as antonella rocuzzo (she`s the girlfriend of a little football player that uses to make goales for barcelona but not for argentine and there are a lot like her and is an example of how we mix) and pampita ardoharin that is the model most famous of arg. In boys rodrigo guirao diaz and carlitos tevez,but we are crazy about gonzalo heredia. theres no need for me to tell you who has indegenous descends.
argentina is not buenos aires and most indegenous (there are 400,000) live in rural zones far from cities.
militars committ human rights violations here, the same that commit the terrrists that killed and kidnapped people in arg living in a clandestine way (you have to listen the two bells). obviusly state repression is always worst than any other form of violence.They should have used justice, i believe in justice. i don`t eat glass and i also know that in irak and afganistan there also killed civilians innocents. our soldiers in malvinas were very encoureged men. we every year conmemorate their death.
and as an end yes you are very serious people and have been making studies of inbred population in the falklands in this link: htpp:/www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bsc/jbiog/2005/00000032/00000004/art00009 interesting sorry if this bothers you but as you are talking how is conformed argentine population i tell you about how is it in malvinas last comment

By: x

Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:15:27 +0000

@ paul g

I was moved by that. Enjoy reading about your tanks.

By: paul g

paul g — Tue, 25 Jan 2011 10:22:46 +0000

patagonia, a good welsh suburb!! and very proud of it as well get patagonians coming here to practise their welsh, bless ‘em. It is rather amusing that loads are called jones or thomas. Anyway politics bores me i’m off to read about big smelly clanky stuff, that drops oil at whim (ahhh chiefty how i miss you)!!!

By: a

Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:58:24 +0000

south americans don`t want colonialism here (all the countries of the region have fought so much for this sharing the same heros in same cases)

True – where would the South American nations be without the heroes who fought to win them their independence? Men like Cochrane, Crosbie, Grenfell, Devereaux, O’Connor, Vowell, Alexander, and the whole of Bolivar’s British Legion…

You’re welcome.

By: maiten

maiten — Mon, 24 Jan 2011 23:28:21 +0000

Im not a chico I am a girl Watch my name Yeeee Im going
Indigineous and spanish mixed since 1500 the grangranddmother of my mother was indegineous.my father instead has not indegenous blood. argentine are mixed people from there origins, and some others indegineos people wanted to be a close comunitti and didnt mix. People of corea that come to live here don´t mix with argentines and they all have supermarkets they don`t work in anything else who knows we dont discriminate.There are many closed communitties all over the world.
im been very polite too. sometimes others points of view is not accepted I respet you Our history and lives are different

By: Tubby

Tubby — Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:50:07 +0000

Really Maiten, we killed all the Argentinian colonists – so we killed Matthew Brisbane, who was Vernet’s deputy or Irish man William Dickinson who was later appointed governor? I am going to be polite and assume that what you were trying to say is that artefacts demonstrate that the Patagonian India’s reached the island first even though there is no evidence they were still living on island when France built the first colony a year before Britain built it’s first colony and you are not suggesting that Britain massacred all of Vernet’s colonist’s when it reclaimed the islands are you, because the massacre story would be a lie not backed up by history.

By: x

Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:46:55 +0000

Maiten said “isnt there insest problems in the isles as you dont mix very much??”

Before the war RM would regularly inject fresh genetic material into the gene pool.

And if that is the level of your comment you really don’t really warrant a response.

Ahora ser un buen chico y se van, por favor.

By: x

Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:41:20 +0000

Demographic collapse in South American indigenous populations is a historical fact. Yes some survived but 90% of Argentina’s population is descended from European settlers. Though the Falkland Islands were uninhabited when Europeans came across them. Certainly the British didn’t kill any “native Falkland Islanders.” It was the Spanish who had a rather sickening predisposition to torturing, massacring, and enslaving indigenous peoples of South America.

The fact that Falklands Myth is so readily believed by many still in that former Spanish colony points really to its deeply flawed national psyche that is essentially without roots. I can only imagine the disbelief and sense of discontent felt by those poor conscripts sent to a cold inhospitable place expecting a friendly reception from a kindred people only to find themselves at best resented, mostly hated, by a people from a different culture, speaking a different language, and many of whom belonged to a different religion. Imagine being cold, wet, and underfed living in a waterlogged trench. Having little or no support from your officers. Waiting for one of the best trained militaries in the world to come and kill you; finding little comfort in pictures of the Bless Lady or your rosary. All for a political stunt to shore up a junta that used to throw descenters naked in chains from ‘planes into the sea.

I find any assertion that the Falklands Islands belong to Argentina not only distasteful but insulting.

By: maiten

maiten — Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:22:05 +0000

isnt there insest problems in the isles as you dont mix very much??

By: maiten

maiten — Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:15:24 +0000

the people living in the island are all british. there is no local original people of the isle. you`ve killed them. what self determination could they have but the britishs.Its implanted the determination. In argentina spanish invaders came in 1500, killed many but couldn`t with the more of 22 indegenous communities. For example in patagonia were living the patagones, yamanas, onas y mapuches. There are still mapuches comunitties in rio negro, ando you can buy in usuhaia for ex.there original knittings and artesanies that you wount be able to find any where else. they have great culture and survive that way. Many spanish invaders have relations with indigenous girls and viceversa,and so on and thats were argentines come from. That people are the ones that fought for independence in 1800, that killed the virrey sobremonte. Our problems we thought didnt need to be solved by the king of spain, we can take care of ourselves alone in all ways defence, economic, political ways. No more colonies. Then in 1900, inmigrations from the second world came but they also mix with the population from here. For example cristina descends of spanish, marries kirchner that descends of germans, menem descends of arabs and others mix with the argentines, and thats why its is said we are a crisol de razas country. Indiginuos exists in Arg look in google. We have many problems in latin american, but we are really free and you have yours. My name is indigineous by the way, they are here very common.

By: Jimsw

Jimsw — Mon, 24 Jan 2011 20:38:06 +0000

We could also discuss the genocide of the locals when Argentina invaded Patagonia and the pampas in the 1870s.

By: x

Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:54:15 +0000

@ Jed re colonialism

You could view the occupation of the Falkland Islands by Argentina as colonialism. Seizing another people’s land for political and economic gain is colonialism.

And somebody above mentioned about the political realities of modern day Latin America. Thank you but some of us are very aware of what is happening in Latin America. Whether it is Chavez in Venezuela, police backed gangs shooting street kids in Brazil, drug cartels about to bring the Mexican government, narco-terrorism in Columbia etc. etc. Really convinced that we should listen to a Latin American’s views on law and order and political rights and wrongs.

By: x

Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:46:57 +0000

@ maiten Re Gib

Spain perhaps should give back its North Africa territories, get out of those parts of Portugal it has occupied, get out of Basque country, get out of Catalonia………….

By: x

Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:40:17 +0000

I am starting a campaign to give South America back to the indigenous peoples. Please give generously. :)

By: Jed

Jed — Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:12:00 +0000

Maiten

Your correct in that history is a bitch. British Empire was incredibly arrogant did bad things (as of course did French, Spanish and Portuguese ‘empires’ in South America), but that was all along time ago, many South American national governments have done equally bad things to their own citizens rather more recently !

However the UN Covenant on Civil and Political Rights is based on the premise of “Self Determination”, and therefore should Falkland Islanders and Gibraltarians wish to remain British Citizens, then that is their right:

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cpr.html

PART 1

Article 1

All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

So I would humbly suggest that while history is history, the currently living individuals of the present populations get to pick their own government, as per the above UN mandate. So it appears it really has very little to do with colonialism anymore.

By: maiten

maiten — Mon, 24 Jan 2011 17:20:18 +0000

Argentina doesn`t claim the islands by closeness only. The french ceded the islands to Spain, which assigned them in Buenos Aires.Britain signed a treaty, the Nookta convention recognizing the spanish sovereignity of the islands and after independency, Argentina had a population and governor in the islands (wich britain expelled after invading them). This occured after two british invasion of Buenos Aires and a failed naval blockade.
Also britain seized more argetinian marine territoy after the war than before, for no reason (but the oil). You will never be part of the region, south americans don`t want colonialism here (all the countries of the region have fought so much for this sharing the same heros in same cases)and are united. Gibraltar has the same problem, spain its claiming its sovereignity. You see sth and say its mine, but never ask does this belong to someone else???

By: NK

NK — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 15:15:59 +0000

@ Marcos and Admin
I believe three civilians were killed, albeit with friendly fire but friendly fire that wouldn’t have happened with no invasion…