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	<title>Comments on: So How Much is a Blackhawk?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2010/01/so-how-much-is-a-blackhawk/</link>
	<description>A progressive view on UK military affairs</description>
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		<title>By: cbd</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2010/01/so-how-much-is-a-blackhawk/#comment-894</link>
		<dc:creator>cbd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/?p=2114#comment-894</guid>
		<description>Dominic,
Well understood, the previous posts were not meant as any sort of reprimand. I was simply providing more data about that and other Blackhawk sales. 

The other sales show similarly large costs for the acquisition of the technical information and training skills required to operate a fleet, emphasizing that the cost is almost doubled in many other small orders. But that additional cost is often smaller in larger orders and, furthermore, includes much more than just the basic airframe. 

Given the recent difficulties &#039;upgrading&#039; a handful of Chinooks to UK standard systems, it might be worth it to pay a bit more per unit in order to have the craft arrive with UK comms and other systems pre-installed.

Also, if the UK, Australia and NZ are looking for a common helicopter (as I read somewhere recently) then they could do worse.  Bundling into larger orders has benefited the USN and US Army on the Blackhawk, I&#039;m sure the UK, NZ and Oz could do the same.

Just an idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dominic,<br />
Well understood, the previous posts were not meant as any sort of reprimand. I was simply providing more data about that and other Blackhawk sales. </p>
<p>The other sales show similarly large costs for the acquisition of the technical information and training skills required to operate a fleet, emphasizing that the cost is almost doubled in many other small orders. But that additional cost is often smaller in larger orders and, furthermore, includes much more than just the basic airframe. </p>
<p>Given the recent difficulties &#8216;upgrading&#8217; a handful of Chinooks to UK standard systems, it might be worth it to pay a bit more per unit in order to have the craft arrive with UK comms and other systems pre-installed.</p>
<p>Also, if the UK, Australia and NZ are looking for a common helicopter (as I read somewhere recently) then they could do worse.  Bundling into larger orders has benefited the USN and US Army on the Blackhawk, I&#8217;m sure the UK, NZ and Oz could do the same.</p>
<p>Just an idea.</p>
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		<title>By: DominicJ</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2010/01/so-how-much-is-a-blackhawk/#comment-893</link>
		<dc:creator>DominicJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 13:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/?p=2114#comment-893</guid>
		<description>I think our intrepid leader was simply using it as an example.
For the most part, we dont know comes with an eqipment purchase, be it warrior UAVs, Tucano Turbo Props or Typhoon Jets.

The fact that there&#039;s a 400% unit cost variance is startling</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think our intrepid leader was simply using it as an example.<br />
For the most part, we dont know comes with an eqipment purchase, be it warrior UAVs, Tucano Turbo Props or Typhoon Jets.</p>
<p>The fact that there&#8217;s a 400% unit cost variance is startling</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cbd</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2010/01/so-how-much-is-a-blackhawk/#comment-892</link>
		<dc:creator>cbd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 02:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/?p=2114#comment-892</guid>
		<description>Having looked at the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2010/Taiwan_09-03.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;DSCA release&lt;/a&gt;, it appears that they&#039;re getting a lot in the package, beyond the normal training for flight and ground crews including lots of maintenance equipment, NVGs, ammunition and related weapons systems.

&quot;The Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the United States has requested a possible sale of 60 UH-60M BLACK HAWK helicopters with 120 T-700-GE-701D engines, 18 spare T-700-GE-701D engines, 69 AN/APR-39A(V)2 Radar Warning Receivers, 69 AN/ALQ-144A(V)1 Infrared Countermeasure Sets, 69 AN/AAR-57 Common Missile Warning Systems, 69 AN/AVR-2B Laser Detecting Sets, 120 GAU-19/A .50 cal Machine Gun Systems, and 310 AN/AVS-9 Aviator Night Vision Goggles. 

Also included are .50 cal ammunition, pyrotechnics, cartridges and propellant actuated devices. Also included are other explosives including devices, Po-Sheng Communication/Data Link Systems, ammunition, spare and repair parts, tools and
support equipment, publications and technical data, personnel training and training equipment, contractor engineering and technical support services and other related elements of logistics support. 

The estimated cost is $3.1 billion.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having looked at the <a href="http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2010/Taiwan_09-03.pdf" rel="nofollow">DSCA release</a>, it appears that they&#8217;re getting a lot in the package, beyond the normal training for flight and ground crews including lots of maintenance equipment, NVGs, ammunition and related weapons systems.</p>
<p>&#8220;The Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the United States has requested a possible sale of 60 UH-60M BLACK HAWK helicopters with 120 T-700-GE-701D engines, 18 spare T-700-GE-701D engines, 69 AN/APR-39A(V)2 Radar Warning Receivers, 69 AN/ALQ-144A(V)1 Infrared Countermeasure Sets, 69 AN/AAR-57 Common Missile Warning Systems, 69 AN/AVR-2B Laser Detecting Sets, 120 GAU-19/A .50 cal Machine Gun Systems, and 310 AN/AVS-9 Aviator Night Vision Goggles. </p>
<p>Also included are .50 cal ammunition, pyrotechnics, cartridges and propellant actuated devices. Also included are other explosives including devices, Po-Sheng Communication/Data Link Systems, ammunition, spare and repair parts, tools and<br />
support equipment, publications and technical data, personnel training and training equipment, contractor engineering and technical support services and other related elements of logistics support. </p>
<p>The estimated cost is $3.1 billion.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: cbd</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2010/01/so-how-much-is-a-blackhawk/#comment-891</link>
		<dc:creator>cbd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 00:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/?p=2114#comment-891</guid>
		<description>It seems, from recent mil-oriented open sources, the current going rate for a basic UH-60L is $12-15m INCLUDING spares, $35m when technical support and related information is transferred (out of 15 helicopters). $20m for MEDEVAC-styled units.  

For the more recent UH-60M and related naval models, it&#039;s more in the range of $15-25m (which includes customizations, spares and kits).  Good deals on large buys, too ($14-16m per unit for the multi-year large-scale contract with US Army and Navy).

$14m may be low-balling it, but for the UK to switch the per-unit cost for a large buy (Couple hundred units) will probably average out to about $18m per unit (with all the good bits thrown in).

Sources:

DEFENSE INDUSTRY DAILY
6 UH-60Ls to Brazil @ $73.2m ($12.2m) in sept 09
4 UH-60Ls (modified) to Brazil @ $60.4m ($15.1m) in June 09
As part of a larger program (DSCA announced Sept 08): up to 15 UH-60L helicopters with 30 T-700-GE-701C engines, 2 spare T-700-GE-701C engines, external and internal fuel tanks, warranty, internal and external hoist kits, weather radar, spare and repair parts, tools and support equipment, publications and technical data, personnel training and training equipment, contractor engineering and technical support services and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $525 million. ($35m per with all options)

8 UH-60Ls to Colombia @ $100m ($12.5m) 
2 UH-60Ls (MEDEVAC) to Colombia @ $43m ($21.5m)

9 UH-60Ms to Bahrain @ up to $252m ($28m per with all options) per DSCA, $204m (with included add-ons, spares, and support), or $22.7m per copy.

26 UH-60Ms to UAE/Dubai @ up to $808m (with all options, no clear break-down for indiv units)
14 UH-60Ms to UAE @ $171m ($12.2m), extension of previous contract, and more likely specification of per-unit costs.
(Details on the add-ons, http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/UAE-Ordering-Weaponized-UH-60M-Battlehawk-Helicopters-05078/)

SIKORSKY
537 UH-60M/HH-60M/MH-60R/MH-60S @ $7.4bn ($13.7m), incl spares. Options bring it up to  $11.6bn, but that includes an additional 263 aircraft and spares ($4.2bn for 263 or ~$16m per)
(http://www.sikorsky.com/vgn-ext-templating-SIK/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=00de6eb78fa78110VgnVCM1000001382000aRCRD&amp;vgnextchannel=709f45d57ef68110VgnVCM1000001382000aRCRD&amp;vgnextfmt=default&amp;pressvcmid=b8dea96c2e289110VgnVCM1000001382000aRCRD)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems, from recent mil-oriented open sources, the current going rate for a basic UH-60L is $12-15m INCLUDING spares, $35m when technical support and related information is transferred (out of 15 helicopters). $20m for MEDEVAC-styled units.  </p>
<p>For the more recent UH-60M and related naval models, it&#8217;s more in the range of $15-25m (which includes customizations, spares and kits).  Good deals on large buys, too ($14-16m per unit for the multi-year large-scale contract with US Army and Navy).</p>
<p>$14m may be low-balling it, but for the UK to switch the per-unit cost for a large buy (Couple hundred units) will probably average out to about $18m per unit (with all the good bits thrown in).</p>
<p>Sources:</p>
<p>DEFENSE INDUSTRY DAILY<br />
6 UH-60Ls to Brazil @ $73.2m ($12.2m) in sept 09<br />
4 UH-60Ls (modified) to Brazil @ $60.4m ($15.1m) in June 09<br />
As part of a larger program (DSCA announced Sept 08): up to 15 UH-60L helicopters with 30 T-700-GE-701C engines, 2 spare T-700-GE-701C engines, external and internal fuel tanks, warranty, internal and external hoist kits, weather radar, spare and repair parts, tools and support equipment, publications and technical data, personnel training and training equipment, contractor engineering and technical support services and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $525 million. ($35m per with all options)</p>
<p>8 UH-60Ls to Colombia @ $100m ($12.5m)<br />
2 UH-60Ls (MEDEVAC) to Colombia @ $43m ($21.5m)</p>
<p>9 UH-60Ms to Bahrain @ up to $252m ($28m per with all options) per DSCA, $204m (with included add-ons, spares, and support), or $22.7m per copy.</p>
<p>26 UH-60Ms to UAE/Dubai @ up to $808m (with all options, no clear break-down for indiv units)<br />
14 UH-60Ms to UAE @ $171m ($12.2m), extension of previous contract, and more likely specification of per-unit costs.<br />
(Details on the add-ons, <a href="http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/UAE-Ordering-Weaponized-UH-60M-Battlehawk-Helicopters-05078/" rel="nofollow">http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/UAE-Ordering-Weaponized-UH-60M-Battlehawk-Helicopters-05078/</a>)</p>
<p>SIKORSKY<br />
537 UH-60M/HH-60M/MH-60R/MH-60S @ $7.4bn ($13.7m), incl spares. Options bring it up to  $11.6bn, but that includes an additional 263 aircraft and spares ($4.2bn for 263 or ~$16m per)<br />
(<a href="http://www.sikorsky.com/vgn-ext-templating-SIK/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=00de6eb78fa78110VgnVCM1000001382000aRCRD&#038;vgnextchannel=709f45d57ef68110VgnVCM1000001382000aRCRD&#038;vgnextfmt=default&#038;pressvcmid=b8dea96c2e289110VgnVCM1000001382000aRCRD" rel="nofollow">http://www.sikorsky.com/vgn-ext-templating-SIK/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=00de6eb78fa78110VgnVCM1000001382000aRCRD&#038;vgnextchannel=709f45d57ef68110VgnVCM1000001382000aRCRD&#038;vgnextfmt=default&#038;pressvcmid=b8dea96c2e289110VgnVCM1000001382000aRCRD</a>)</p>
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