Comments on: FDR – Naval Logistics #1

By: Halldor Asgeirsson (ret Icelandic Merchant Marine Navigation Officer with full certificate)

Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:37:25 +0000

I think that merchant mariners can do most of the job you put on RN servicemen.

If you have seen those service men work together you will recognise that usually merchantmen are more flexable and multi-purpose people than those belonging to the regular Navy.

If you got able seamen from the Icelandic CG on board Icelandic merchant vessel you found out that you could usually not use them, because they could not work in handling deck cranes and work the usual merchantmans job when the ship was loading or unloading cargo.

You could make use of them in the paintwork and handling mooring lines, on helm and bridge work they were good but they had to be on board for some weeks to get trained for new and different job.

By: Turbine

Turbine — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:59:02 +0000

I agree with most of what has been said, however The sealift command point boats, ARE NOT managed or controlled by RFA.

These ships are run by James Fishers, the way they get aroung war zones, is by making sure that all employees are Royal Naval Reserve.

But one fact that must been borne to mind is the cost of the NEW tankers that RFA need urgently, if a commercial company provided the new ships and ran those ships, it would take a massive commintment from the MOD. This in turn would demonstrate to the TAX payers that MOD is making savings. To those out side of the RFA it is very easy to make these comments, to those inside the RFA, we are aware of the fact that Maersk Shipping currently runs manages and operates, 46 MSC Vessels (Miliatry Sealift Comand) US Version of RFA.

It has been proven by the US and also by UK that commercail shipping companies, can and do these roles.

I think the keynote is the fact that RFA is too small an organisation to gather public support, ask your average Joe in the street what the merchant navy is, i would hazard that very few if any could give the correct answer, and there lies the problem!

Remember if it was not for the eeforts of the Merchant Seamen of UK US and Canada, vital supplies would never have gotten through. More Merchant Seamen died during the atlantic conveys, than service personnel during the war from all services. It took the UK government over 40 years to recognise this and award Merchant Navy Day!

The even worse news, is that money dictates and common sense does not even play a part in future policies regarding public spending cuts.

I am afraid that it may well be a case of the writing is on the wall.

Tankers ran by commercial shipping company, the more speacialist ships stay RFA but under RN control!

Before anybody makes the comment that RASing would not be able to be done by a shipping company, look to the Falkland BP shipping did it then! to prove it can be done!

By: Jed

Jed — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:24:40 +0000

DominicJ said: “I get the basic role, but dont understand why crew would refuse to be part of the RN”

Because they are Civvies ! If they wanted to join the RN and be under military discipline then I guess they would have.

The RFA is crewed by MERCHANT SEAMEN, as such they have very, very different pay and conditions. During my 9 months as part of a Naval Party onboard RFA Diligence we would see merchant sailors come and go every time we made port, some had signed up on long contracts, some on short. If you transfered the RFA to the RN, I think the wages bill would sky rocket.

By: DominicJ

DominicJ — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:34:26 +0000

“to me it seemed that few people actually knew what the RFA is.”

I still dont, I get the basic role, but dont understand why crew would refuse to be part of the RN

By: 13th spitfire

13th spitfire — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:37:28 +0000

Mr. Bruno I am glad you liked most of the article, though I must add I am not PR person, I am only a student who is very interested in politics and defence, and happens to know a fair amount of the latter. Perhaps, you are right; I should not have added as much background information but to me it seemed that few people actually knew what the RFA is.

By: St Bruno

St Bruno — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:01:13 +0000

Missed this site until I found the link on 13th Spitfire, today.
Agree with most of the text of the article, though It’s a shame nearly half of it was telling everyone what the RFA is, quite obviously by a tasked PR person in RFA.
The media are devoid of understanding the role of the RFA. The media is, as you say, only looking for some political advantage. The RFA should not be sacrificed on the altar of the New Labour miss-managements. All heads in the RFA should be kept well below the parapet. Some really good PR might help, change the ROE to give the pirates a headache, don’t send an RFA to do a Warships’ job it only looks bad in the media.
The RFA has done sterling service in all British conflicts, in one way or another, looking after the RN at sea, carrying enough oils, water, food, ammunition, storm/hurricane relief stores, booze and backy and a place to have diplomatic entertaining for and after long voyages. History is not important, only savings and tomorrow’s budget and willy waving silly party politics. Long term ‘Defence of the Realm’ issues are a luxury?
If the RFA were privatized it will surely go the way of every other recently privatized State owned industry or service, right down the pan. The reasons you mention are some of the correct ones but surely ‘security’ is of prime importance, not just security of the ship and its assets but ‘Home Land’ security if ‘the stuff’ it carries is compromised by neglect or an act of terrorism from one of the Officers’ or ratings.
Historically, shipping companies cannot always be relied to put the ship, its crew and its mission first where profit is concerned. Anyway, who will take on the new role of the RFA? P&O, Stena, Normandy Ferries, Virgin PLC. The government could cast the net wider outside the EU to the Middle East or the Far East or even try Coca-Cola or Pepsi. Management buy-out? I am of the opinion that the RFA is not any old shipping company that can be bought and sold at the whim of its owners, it has developed according to the needs of it’s role over the years. Will the new owner build the ships in the future that are needed to face the ever changing threats?
Can the Government and its Ministers not remember the adage that: if its working and works well, leave it alone?
I suppose there is in COMRFA a team of people discussing this very problem, trying to think up ways they can wangle a job with the New RFA Private Management Enterprises PLC. The terms of privatization are not even thought out yet let alone set in stone.
As the media has gone quiet there is some hope but the media don’t make Government policy or so it would seem.

By: Tony Steel

Tony Steel — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:54:57 +0000

“Financially it is cheaper to keep it in-house since privatisation is always run for a profit and margins will be added to the bill handed to the MoD.”

If the private company that takes it on cuts costs by an amount greater than the profit, then it will be cheaper. Availability contracting for example has saved well over a billion pounds on the maintenance of the Tornado fleet, and BAE Systems and Rolls Royce will have made a profit on the work.

That’s not necessarily to say that a private company would in practice be able to make cost savings with the RFA, but in general terms it is far, far from the case that privatising MOD work increases costs.

By: 13th spitfire

13th spitfire — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:53:08 +0000

Jed,

I completely agree with you which is why I think this will not go through, it is so completely nonsensical. That said they will be investigating the possibility of merging the RFA with the RN for political reasons.

But as it stands, there appears to be too many obstacles for privatization that would not endanger the whole purpose of a support fleet.

By: Euan

Euan — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 02:27:34 +0000

What can i say apart from i totally agree with Jed.

By: Jed

Jed — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 00:55:15 +0000

13th Spitfire said: “Additionally, the RFA is the single largest employer of UK merchant seamen – lose this and you ring the death knell of the Merchant Navy – no matter how persuasive the logic may be”

And this to my mind is the most strategic issue of them all – the RFA provides employment for merchant seamen. It provides a training ground for merchant officers, and it provides superbly trained seamen (with more firefighting and damage control training than the average Filipino sailor).