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	<title>Comments on: FDR Supporting Articles – UK Tactical Air Power</title>
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	<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2009/12/fdr-supporting-articles-uk-tactical-air-power/</link>
	<description>A progressive view on UK military affairs</description>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2009/12/fdr-supporting-articles-uk-tactical-air-power/#comment-401</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 12:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/?p=1505#comment-401</guid>
		<description>Having got that off my chest, I&#039;d like to say something about the HMS Cornwall incident.  That was a failure of political will.  God knows what Nelson would have thought.  According to Patrick O&#039;Brien, Nelson&#039;s approach was that if you saw the enemy, you should go for them.  Didn&#039;t they shoot Admiral Byng for not doing that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having got that off my chest, I&#8217;d like to say something about the HMS Cornwall incident.  That was a failure of political will.  God knows what Nelson would have thought.  According to Patrick O&#8217;Brien, Nelson&#8217;s approach was that if you saw the enemy, you should go for them.  Didn&#8217;t they shoot Admiral Byng for not doing that?</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2009/12/fdr-supporting-articles-uk-tactical-air-power/#comment-400</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 12:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/?p=1505#comment-400</guid>
		<description>One thing I learn&#039;t in 13 years in various MOD &amp; RAF intelligence posts, was that the operational fraternity don&#039;t like good news!  So the puddings of potential opponents are always over-egged.

I would support the idea of buying more Typhoons and having a long term policy of developing the aircraft and its weapon systems.  In which case, we should consolidate its production in the UK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing I learn&#8217;t in 13 years in various MOD &amp; RAF intelligence posts, was that the operational fraternity don&#8217;t like good news!  So the puddings of potential opponents are always over-egged.</p>
<p>I would support the idea of buying more Typhoons and having a long term policy of developing the aircraft and its weapon systems.  In which case, we should consolidate its production in the UK.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2009/12/fdr-supporting-articles-uk-tactical-air-power/#comment-399</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 10:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/?p=1505#comment-399</guid>
		<description>Hi Michael

You are most welcome to be as outspoken as you like :D

Look at the aim of the site, to get people talking.

Air power is an essential pre requisite of almost any operation. Even if one looks at the loads carried by aircraft in Afghanistan you will find air to air missiles because if the threat from Iran (think sailors and ipods) 

Effective fighter designs are proliferating so the threat might be a bit less easier to define than in the Cold War but it is still out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Michael</p>
<p>You are most welcome to be as outspoken as you like :D</p>
<p>Look at the aim of the site, to get people talking.</p>
<p>Air power is an essential pre requisite of almost any operation. Even if one looks at the loads carried by aircraft in Afghanistan you will find air to air missiles because if the threat from Iran (think sailors and ipods) </p>
<p>Effective fighter designs are proliferating so the threat might be a bit less easier to define than in the Cold War but it is still out there.</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2009/12/fdr-supporting-articles-uk-tactical-air-power/#comment-398</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 08:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/?p=1505#comment-398</guid>
		<description>As a newcomer to this forum, I hesitate to be too outspoken; but here goes.

The idea that by fighting them there we avoid fighting them here is a favourite of our current leader.  Of course, the threat here is an internal security problem made worse by this policy.  

Before an aircraft is purchased, a threat statement is concocted by the DIS.  I was part of this process for Typhoon when it was called something else.  All I am asking is - what is the threat now?  The same as it was in 1981 when FIFA was growing into shape?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a newcomer to this forum, I hesitate to be too outspoken; but here goes.</p>
<p>The idea that by fighting them there we avoid fighting them here is a favourite of our current leader.  Of course, the threat here is an internal security problem made worse by this policy.  </p>
<p>Before an aircraft is purchased, a threat statement is concocted by the DIS.  I was part of this process for Typhoon when it was called something else.  All I am asking is &#8211; what is the threat now?  The same as it was in 1981 when FIFA was growing into shape?</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2009/12/fdr-supporting-articles-uk-tactical-air-power/#comment-397</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 23:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/?p=1505#comment-397</guid>
		<description>Hi Michael

Aircraft such as these don&#039;t only deal with threats in the traditional sense but also allow us to project power and influence, in an expeditionary sense this keeps the fighting away from our back door</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Michael</p>
<p>Aircraft such as these don&#8217;t only deal with threats in the traditional sense but also allow us to project power and influence, in an expeditionary sense this keeps the fighting away from our back door</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2009/12/fdr-supporting-articles-uk-tactical-air-power/#comment-396</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 12:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/?p=1505#comment-396</guid>
		<description>OK, tell me the threat (s) these aircraft are intended to deal with?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, tell me the threat (s) these aircraft are intended to deal with?</p>
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		<title>By: Euan Stewart</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2009/12/fdr-supporting-articles-uk-tactical-air-power/#comment-395</link>
		<dc:creator>Euan Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/?p=1505#comment-395</guid>
		<description>I agree with what Jed has proposed within his article as it would allow savings from a common fleet to be realised as well as allowing for continued investment in the Eurofighter fleet. I would also strongly peruse maintaining a common standard across the whole fleet by incorporating upgrades to all aircraft including the Tranche 1 airframes. The main problem I can see with this path is the lack of a specialisation the phrase ‘Jack of all trades, master of none’ seems to be pretty relevant in this instance. Any savings should be ploughed into fielding a specialist long range strike UCAV as soon as possible, I would advocate aggressively pursuing this objective with increased funding and resources directed towards this goal. BAE should be able to meet this objective given that they have already managed to develop within a very short time scale various UAV systems and should have an incentive of export potential should they manage to do an efficient job. Ideally this UCAV should also be carrier capable but this could limit the size of the aircraft. 

The X47B is along the same lines as what I think we should aim to develop and produce although with a larger internal weapons load and for a land based version a longer range. Furthermore it should be capable of using a wide variety of weapons as well as using modular systems such as jamming pods and ISTAR pods. These should all be able to fit within bomb bays to ensure the low radar signature is maintained however external stores pylons should be easily added.  Some may suggest buying the X-47B UCAV or joining the program but I would only think this wise if we are given full Transfer of Technology which I doubt would be granted. Therefore developing a UCAV within the UK would be the best way forward and would leverage the knowledge developed by BAE and the skills of UK companies. France could be a possible partner but they would no doubt cause the usual problems and are already invested in other programs so would unlikely to be interested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with what Jed has proposed within his article as it would allow savings from a common fleet to be realised as well as allowing for continued investment in the Eurofighter fleet. I would also strongly peruse maintaining a common standard across the whole fleet by incorporating upgrades to all aircraft including the Tranche 1 airframes. The main problem I can see with this path is the lack of a specialisation the phrase ‘Jack of all trades, master of none’ seems to be pretty relevant in this instance. Any savings should be ploughed into fielding a specialist long range strike UCAV as soon as possible, I would advocate aggressively pursuing this objective with increased funding and resources directed towards this goal. BAE should be able to meet this objective given that they have already managed to develop within a very short time scale various UAV systems and should have an incentive of export potential should they manage to do an efficient job. Ideally this UCAV should also be carrier capable but this could limit the size of the aircraft. </p>
<p>The X47B is along the same lines as what I think we should aim to develop and produce although with a larger internal weapons load and for a land based version a longer range. Furthermore it should be capable of using a wide variety of weapons as well as using modular systems such as jamming pods and ISTAR pods. These should all be able to fit within bomb bays to ensure the low radar signature is maintained however external stores pylons should be easily added.  Some may suggest buying the X-47B UCAV or joining the program but I would only think this wise if we are given full Transfer of Technology which I doubt would be granted. Therefore developing a UCAV within the UK would be the best way forward and would leverage the knowledge developed by BAE and the skills of UK companies. France could be a possible partner but they would no doubt cause the usual problems and are already invested in other programs so would unlikely to be interested.</p>
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		<title>By: Jed</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2009/12/fdr-supporting-articles-uk-tactical-air-power/#comment-388</link>
		<dc:creator>Jed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/?p=1505#comment-388</guid>
		<description>Admin asks &quot;is it affordable&quot; - well as a new commentator on a recent post complained, we can&#039;t really do the math as we dont have all the numbers, but I would have thought that:
1. Retiring Harrier early
2. Retiring Tornado early
3. Withdrawing from JCA / JSF / F35

Would save quite a bit of cash, plus the logistical, training and support benefits of a single type fleet - so maybe if we had the numbers it really would be affordable ???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Admin asks &#8220;is it affordable&#8221; &#8211; well as a new commentator on a recent post complained, we can&#8217;t really do the math as we dont have all the numbers, but I would have thought that:<br />
1. Retiring Harrier early<br />
2. Retiring Tornado early<br />
3. Withdrawing from JCA / JSF / F35</p>
<p>Would save quite a bit of cash, plus the logistical, training and support benefits of a single type fleet &#8211; so maybe if we had the numbers it really would be affordable ???</p>
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		<title>By: DominicJ</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2009/12/fdr-supporting-articles-uk-tactical-air-power/#comment-385</link>
		<dc:creator>DominicJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 13:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/?p=1505#comment-385</guid>
		<description>300 Typhoons, sounds like a plan I can get behind.

In reality, its a big cut in all costs, both capital and ongoing compared to whats still the official plan (SDR) and the offical plan (what the MoD said most recently)
Although we lose some stealth and poor base capability, stealth is nice, but hardly essential, especialy if we have a decent S/DEAD platform, which if I understood Jed correctly, Meteor will have a 5 minute loiter, go a kilometer a second and 11 of them could be carried by a single Typhoon.
As for poor basing, well, tough, use a runway like normal plane, the UK has thousands of the things, if all the RAF ones are bombed, the ground staff will have to comandeer a few trucks and move to Top Gear Studios.
If your a foreigner and might want our help in the future, keep in mind it will require a proper strip of tarmac.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>300 Typhoons, sounds like a plan I can get behind.</p>
<p>In reality, its a big cut in all costs, both capital and ongoing compared to whats still the official plan (SDR) and the offical plan (what the MoD said most recently)<br />
Although we lose some stealth and poor base capability, stealth is nice, but hardly essential, especialy if we have a decent S/DEAD platform, which if I understood Jed correctly, Meteor will have a 5 minute loiter, go a kilometer a second and 11 of them could be carried by a single Typhoon.<br />
As for poor basing, well, tough, use a runway like normal plane, the UK has thousands of the things, if all the RAF ones are bombed, the ground staff will have to comandeer a few trucks and move to Top Gear Studios.<br />
If your a foreigner and might want our help in the future, keep in mind it will require a proper strip of tarmac.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2009/12/fdr-supporting-articles-uk-tactical-air-power/#comment-382</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 10:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/?p=1505#comment-382</guid>
		<description>I like the idea Jed but is this affordable. Our thinking was to consolidate on the Typhoon with an early withdrawal of Harrier and Tornado combined with a modest increase in numbers to sustain the fleet.

So a real decrease in numbers and capability with the money used for logistics, ISR and an accelerated UAV programme.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the idea Jed but is this affordable. Our thinking was to consolidate on the Typhoon with an early withdrawal of Harrier and Tornado combined with a modest increase in numbers to sustain the fleet.</p>
<p>So a real decrease in numbers and capability with the money used for logistics, ISR and an accelerated UAV programme.</p>
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		<title>By: Jed</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2009/12/fdr-supporting-articles-uk-tactical-air-power/#comment-375</link>
		<dc:creator>Jed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 02:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/?p=1505#comment-375</guid>
		<description>Thanks guys :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks guys :-)</p>
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