New Lynx Flies (No Not That One)
Our opinion of the Future Lynx Wildcat has been made clear over a number of recent posts (here, here and here)
We think for the Army it is a criminal waste of scarce funding and one that will deliver very poor value for money.
The current Lynx is simply not good enough to operate in the heat and altitude Afghanistan as so much of our current equipment is. This poor capability in harsh environments seems to be across the capability spectrum and is a subject we will look at in the future, we are often told the reason military equipment is so expensive is because it has to operate in all environments, all environments obviously doesn’t mean quite all environments.
Agusta Westland were contracted to up engine a number of Lynx Mk9 helicopters so they could cope with conditions in Afghanistan. The numbers of the final contracted order seems a little unclear. In written answers and statements in January 2008 the Parliamentary under Secretary for Defence, Quentin Davies, stated
The first of the 12 upgraded Lynx Mark 9 helicopters will also be available by the end of 2009
The cost announced was £70 million which would work out at just under £6 million each, or £3 million per engine if one discounts the gearbox modifications, structural work and training involved.
Of course we don’t know the terms of the deal and what it includes so those figures would be subject to clarification.
Announcing the first flight of the upgraded helicopters (now known as Lynx AH Mk.9A) the Agusta Westland press release states that the original 12 will be joined by an additional 8, later in 2010. The original announcement was for 12 and later changed to 22 for £140 million, a slight inflation in unit price. The final number of engines to be delivered to Augusta Westland by Rolls Royce is uncertain but will of course be more than the number of airframes converted.
Is it 20 or 22, who knows?
The AH Mk.9A uses equipment and engines (Honeywell/R-R LHTEC CTS800-4Ns) from the Lynx Wildcat programme.
Lynx Mk9A
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Just thought I’d update the Lynx Mk 9A cost issues.
The 12 Lynx’s were updated for circa £50million, which included three spare engines. The cost of the CTS800 engines comes out at around £537,500 each (the Lynx Wildcat project was $140million for 140 engines, at $1.86 to the £ etc).
This gives a unit cost for conversion at around £4.03million. Of that £1million approx is for the engines, so all the other conversion work including structural alterations, main rotor gearbox conversion, new oil cooler, secure radios, flight testing, overheads and profit etc cost £3million.
Anyone have an idea what the profit margin would be on a project like this, 10 – 15%?
Anonymous AW Employee, just in case you were thinking this blog is about AW bashing, this was posted on Oct 25th 2009:
http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2009/10/aw109-battlefield-light-utility-helicopter-par-excellence/
Well I don’t know how this is going to go down but here goes. Anonymous AW employee call me a cynic or whatever but I would possibly hazard a guess that you could actually belong to AW’s PR department but who knows. I think the claim that the Lynx Wildcat will be World Leader in its class is a bit wobbly as people have asked what exactly is its class? Furthermore although you may not like our comments they are not directed against AW and their workmanship simply against the politicians and managers. I would also add that this is a Blog if the owner of this blog wishes to post something based upon reasonable fact then they should be allowed to do so even if it’s construed as ‘Raving, rabid cynicism’ by some. I have found the Authors and commentors of this site to be of high quality posting comments that can be supported by fact I even have a habit of checking up on things people say.
Additional comments would be Welcome nonetheless, although we can be raving rabid cynics at times :-)
Anonymous AW Employee, believe me when I say I welcome your comments, there isn’t a question mark over the workmanship at AW. If you read the numerous comments and posts on this blog you will find that many, myself included, are very supportive of other AW products such as the AW139 and AW149.
However, with regards to the Lynx Wildcat, AW got the contract without any competition whatsoever, so how can you say it is a world beater without a fly-off against its competitors or independent corroboration? Also, the aircraft was accepted off the drawing board so the RN and AAC were going to get whatever you produced, good, bad or indifferent.
My main gripes with the Wildcat are:
1. Cost, the project when all the aircraft are delivered is estimated to cost £1.9billion, I’d put the unit cost at around £20-25million. This is only a guess as AW and the MOD are being very tight lipped about it. The original estimate was £1billion for 70 aircraft. Now its costing £900million more and we’re getting eight less aircraft. Why? This is all public money, if AW had to invest just its own money to update the Lynx, how much would have been invested and what would it look like? Would it have resembled the Wildcat or would it have just been an improved Super Lynx 300?
2. Lynx Wildcat as a battlefield helicopter? The MOD changed the description from a light utility helicopter to a recce helicopter. There’s a number of alternative helicopters that could fulfil this role at a fraction of the cost of the Wildcat. The AAC should get the best equipment to fulfil the job at hand, not because a government minister or senior civil servant made a decision behind closed doors. If Wildcat won an independent competition, let the AAC use it as intended with my blessing. To me the AAC is just getting a very expensive de-roled navy helicopter, and yes I think the RN should get it, but just the RN.
With regard to ‘rabid cynicism’ not helping our frontline troops, if you read the Professional Pilots rumour network or Arrse, you will find plenty of the cynicism comes from many ex and serving personnel who have flown and worked on the Lynx. Are we all mistaken? As for ‘raving’ that denotes wild accusations. Everything that I have written is based on fact, personal experience or information available in the public realm. These are not wild accusations plucked from thin air with the sole intentions of beating the MOD and AW; also many of the individuals who comment on this blog are experienced and very well informed.
With regards to ‘State of the art systems’ – Wildcat still uses the same type of servo’s, control rods and levers that were used in the original Lynx. I understand that the tail control cable in the tail boom has been replaced with control rods, but that it not state of the art; the NFH90 has a fly-by-wire system, I’d say that is. Also, the Lynx intermediate gearbox uses a fan to cool it because it overheats after a couple of minutes in the hover, the Wildcat still uses the same gearbox and fan. If overheating was an issue why didn’t AW redesign the gearbox? There are other issues I could raise and I may take you up on your offer of dropping a line to your resident experts, but could you guarantee a reply to all the issues I raise without interference from your PR department?
As for our troops, I’d like to see them operate an aircraft that is big enough and powerful enough to carry an infantry section of eight men and defend itself with two door gunners; this is something the Lynx just cannot do (but the AW139/AW149 could!). This is of course just my personal opinion, you may not agree with it yourself but others do.
Also, Think Defence is an open blog and welcomes all contributors, if the Wildcat is as good as you say it is feel free to write an article about it and tell us why, just don’t cite the usual PR mantras, and if we have made errors use it to correct them. You never know, some of us may become converts!
“The Wildcat aircraft will be world leader in its class – due to its power, speed and state of the art systems.”
What is its class?
“I really think we shouldn’t be using this site to slag off the world class workmanship of AW.”
I’m not sure if anyone has questioned the workmanship, however, The worlds best turd polisher still polishes turds, and no matter how good he is, its still a turd.
“Raving, rabid cynicism does nothing for our troops on the front line”
Neither does a helicopter that, 8 years after the “front line” formed, has not progressed beyond power point presentations.
“I am certain will find the Wildcat to be as effective as the Apache was on first introduction to theatre.”
God help them then.
Dear Anonymous AW employee – I am sure no one is slagging of your workmanship. If you were to browse around the site and see the many threads of discussion you would note that some of us are not simply bashing your product. I for one would like to see more Wildcat going to the RN. However I am one of those who doubts the relevance of a 2 man, radar and EO equipped, lightly armed scout for the Army Air Corps. I have no doubt Wildcat will excel in the role, what I doubt is the role.
I have worn dark blue and green uniforms, and spent a lot of time in the back of Lynx HAS3′s. I am a fan of the Lynx, I think the work to uprate the Lynx to AH9A is a damn fine idea, and applaud AW for completing on time and on budget (?). Plenty of my green colleagues are still on the front line, and please excuse my cynicism but I don’t see Army Wildcat doing anything for them.
Finally the authors and commentors of this site are entitled to their opinions, which do not have to reflect MOD policy or AW marketing. You are entitled to rebut, as you have. We are entitled to question the validity of defence procurement :-)
that’ll be the apache that was many years late suffered (suffers) from acute spares problems and all round was a clusterfudge and yes i was there i speak from experience. i’m sure it’ll be a world leader in it’s in class, what class is that by the way, it carrys six troops, great so not a whole section.
If you’re going to defend wildcat don’t use apache
Lynx Mk9A aready succesfully completed hot and high trials in Kenya (Jan/Feb 2010).
£92m total contract not £140m.
56 modifications – not just “engines, structural work and gear boxes” (!)
The Wildcat aircraft will be world leader in its class – due to its power, speed and state of the art systems. I really think we shouldn’t be using this site to slag off the world class workmanship of AW. Go onto their site and speak with the experts. Raving, rabid cynicism does nothing for our troops on the front line – who I am certain will find the Wildcat to be as effective as the Apache was on first introduction to theatre.
Well done MOD! Seeing as the lack of engine power in the Lynx was recognised during the first Gulf War, back in 1991, it has only taken 18 years to sort the problem out. Well done, buns all round.
Unfortunately, although the new engines have been fitted, has anyone bothered to actually test the aircraft in hot and high conditions comparable to Afghanistan? Although a number of desert nations have adopted the Super Lynx 300, they use it in the maritime role at sea level, not in the mountains. Any information on its capabilities will be gratefully received, however I have the sneaking suspicion that the aircraft will achieve a high level of mediocrity once it gets redeployed to Afghanistan.
It should be noted that the Lynx Wildcat is some 670 kg heavier than the standard Lynx, therefore the flight performance will be degraded. What will be the AgustaWestland future fix for that? A five-bladed main rotor system for an additional umpteen £million?