Comments on: COIN Aircraft – Cracking the Nut

By: NetFiddler

NetFiddler — Sat, 04 Feb 2012 14:36:14 +0000

I agree with Richard Stockley in regard of the need for a dedicated COIN aircraft. But I think, that he is dismissing the Pucara to early. In the Falklands war, most of the IA-58 Pucaras were destroyed on ground. And the majority of those in the commando raid against Goose Green.
The IA-58 has superb low-level flight abilities. It is cheap to maintain and can take-off from improvised airfields. The pilot has excellent view from the cockpit. The latter was a necessity, because the bird lacked any kind of sophisticated targetting devices. As well as protection means against MANPADS.
And that are two of the major reasons against buying Pucara’s (as requested in many forum discussions). A Pucara became the first combat victim of a Stinger MANPAD during the Falkland war. Another one became shot down in the same conflict by small arms fire. For becoming a modern COIN aircraft the IA-58 will need some extra protection against both threats. The lack of modern targetting devices is limiting the aircraft to the use of dumb-weapons. That is bad especially when it needs to be used close to civilian settlements, where high accuracy is needed. The third reason is ordnance flexibility. The original Pucara is limited to three hardpoints. That is insufficiant. For actual groundwork 8-10 hardpoints allow for a better mix of ordnance.
Of course, all those problems could become addressed. But to load all that into a Pucara will increase the weight of the aircraft and that will change flight characteristics.
A last point. A COIN aircraft usually opperates over difficult terrain. Having two engines, instead of one, may be a lifesaver for the pilot.

By: Jed

Jed — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:25:58 +0000

Paulg – we did not miss a trick, the Jaguar was the recipient of a very successful and ongoing avionics improvement program, which saw being the first UK fast jet with a helmet mounted sighting capability. They had also been given uprated Adour engines.

Non of this stopped them getting the chop…… :-(

By: Pink Sky

Pink Sky — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 12:09:15 +0000

I agree with Paul G actually, definitely should've invested in something better. It's not worth the risk. Invest in something unique, cover the details in Security Tape and keep it unique.

By: paul g

paul g — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:53:44 +0000

not entirely relevant to the post but if you watch you tube videos of the jaguar bouncing over rutted fields to take off with it’s under and over wing payloads you have to think we should’ve invested in an upgrade rather than a chop. i’m sure at the time it looked outdated but the the americans were spending on bringing the A10 up to modern standards so i think we missed a trick there

By: Scott Carpenter

Scott Carpenter — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 00:53:58 +0000

I agree with all of your arguments Richard, and do think that as we will be in Afghanistan for a long time (as will the US) there needs to be some sort of dedicated COIN aircraft. I was struck by one thought (as I read this superb website journal

http://www.skyraider.org/hook/ToC.htm#anchor322241

would we be entirely happy with RAF pilots pootling around in a Super Tucano getting close and personal, getting hit by AA fire and going down? And maybe not in 1 or two a year but 10-12-20? Certainly to do the job in Vietnam often required “pressing an attack” in the A1, and the author of that journal is not under any ilusions how dangerous that was.

all the best,

Scotty